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UK cab trade debate and advice
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:51 am 
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Skull wrote:
Artur and molshy wrote:
Skull wrote:
I've got a question for you Artur: Why are owners/plate holders against de-restriction and your competition, the Ph, is also against de-restriction?

Oh and I'll give you a clue. It has nothing to do with customer service. :-|


Ok I'll indulge you skull.

Plate owners are against de restriction because they have a belief that the value of the plate will fall. (Yes I know you've explained before the council owns the plate).

PH don't want de restriction because it means black cabs can grow in number.

I agree the future for the black cab trade isn't a great one.


There is some truth in what you say.

However, the only reason you have a plate "value" is because drivers are being denied unfettered access to the tools of their trade. No fettering of licenses and there is no one to buy a plate from an "owner." Plates would be worthless.

The Ph doesn't want de-restriction because they need drivers to expand their business, and it's only a cap on taxi numbers that allows this to happen. Ph drivers would migrate to the taxi trade to take advantage of the brief and owning a taxi.

ECPH, need drivers and Taxi owners need drivers and that's where the real "value" lies. You are two sides of the same coin, working to enslave drivers for your own benefit.

Oh and CC, I know eventually that Ph, might start growing again after the playing field leveled somewhat, but the "value" is in the driver.

The last time Edinburgh de-restricted, what Ph drivers there were, made the jump to driving a taxi. Now just think what would happen to Edinburgh Airport if that were to happen. It wouldn't be in the hands of Ph for long, that's for sure. :-|

Oh and I should point out, when I started driving it was a de-restricted market, and Ph was virtually nonexistent. :-|


The problem is skull it's hard to take your views seriously when you've already admitted you got a free plate and sold it. You must understand skull those that have borrowed to buy a plate will not be enthused to back your plan.

I do agree that currently the black cab trade is playing into PH hands. Those cheering from the city cabs side should watch closely what happens to central.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:57 am 
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Oh and I should point out that de-restriction isn't a panacea for all that ails the taxi trade. However, until you introduce quality controls that apply to taxis and Ph, your trade is in a death spiral. Your income is heading down not up, and a low-paid industry it will remain. :-|


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:01 am 
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I don't care what happens Artur, I'm just explaining the reality of your situation. :-| And having a bit of fun doing it. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:07 am 
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Lets not discuss income....should be first rule of taxi school.

The doom and gloom you predict is your opinion. And opinions are a lot like [edited by admin].
The black cab trade has been quite robust through the worst economic times in our lifetime.
You will never convince those that have spent money on a plate to embrace de restriction....not even pretendy businessmen like the Kaiser!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:31 am 
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Artur and molshy wrote:
Lets not discuss income....should be first rule of taxi school.

The doom and gloom you predict is your opinion. And opinions are a lot like [edited by admin].
The black cab trade has been quite robust through the worst economic times in our lifetime.
You will never convince those that have spent money on a plate to embrace de restriction....not even pretendy businessmen like the Kaiser!


I'm not trying to convince anyone, and it's not just my opinion, it's the facts. Tell me where I have it wrong.

Almost everything that's happened to the taxi trade, especially in recent years, I've predicted, and I have lived through most of it. :-|

It's your trade now bonny lad. It makes no difference to me, and if you won't or can't see the truth about your situation, then that's fine also.

As I stated somewhere before, for you to earn what I was making twenty years ago, for hours worked, pro rata, you would have too more than double your income at today's date. And if that's not a downward spiral, I don't know what is?

And now the Ph has you by the balls, as predicted... :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:23 am 
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Skull wrote:
I'm not trying to convince anyone, and it's not just my opinion, it's the facts. Tell me where I have it wrong.

Almost everything that's happened to the taxi trade, especially in recent years, I've predicted, and I have lived through most of it. :-|

It's your trade now bonny lad. It makes no difference to me, and if you won't or can't see the truth about your situation, then that's fine also.

As I stated somewhere before, for you to earn what I was making twenty years ago, for hours worked, pro rata, you would have too more than double your income at today's date. And if that's not a downward spiral, I don't know what is?

And now the Ph has you by the balls, as predicted... :wink:



Pity you couldn't predict something useful like the lottery numbers :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:30 am 
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[quote="Skull"]

As I stated somewhere before, for you to earn what I was making twenty years ago, for hours worked, pro rata, you would have too more than double your income at today's date. And if that's not a downward spiral, I don't know what is?

And I'm sure the summers were warmer, kids only spoke when spoken to and milk was proper milk.
It's nice to reminisce but it's just simply not true!

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"I'm going to tell you the story about the geese which fly 5,000 miles from Canada to France. They fly in V-formation but the second ones don't fly. They're the subs for the first ones. And then the second ones take over - so it's teamwork."


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:54 am 
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Skull wrote:
The last time Edinburgh de-restricted, what Ph drivers there were, made the jump to driving a taxi. Now just think what would happen to Edinburgh Airport if that were to happen. It wouldn't be in the hands of Ph for long, that's for sure. :-|


Not true. Why are PH in the airport at the moment? Because the airports owners decided they wanted a choice between taxis and PH for passengers. As long as the airport decides they want that choice for passengers then PH will be at the airport


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:51 am 
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LongshanksED wrote:
Skull wrote:
The last time Edinburgh de-restricted, what Ph drivers there were, made the jump to driving a taxi. Now just think what would happen to Edinburgh Airport if that were to happen. It wouldn't be in the hands of Ph for long, that's for sure. :-|


Not true. Why are PH in the airport at the moment? Because the airports owners decided they wanted a choice between taxis and PH for passengers. As long as the airport decides they want that choice for passengers then PH will be at the airport



Rubbish!!

The Ph is in the airport because for the last twenty years, the Taxi trade has chosen to ignore their expansion, and now they are a viable option. There's also the little matter, of the hack trade breaking ranks like they did at the Waverley.

Without either City Cabs or CRT acting as the backup, there was no ECPH, covering the 30 million-pound airport contract.

Oh and Longshanks, it was my ex-father in law who was responsible for the guy negotiating for the Waverley contract all these years ago. And he told me that had CRT and City stuck together and instead, demanded payment for servicing the Waverley, Railtrack or Scotrail I can't remember which, were prepared to back-down.

You reap...


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:01 am 
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Artur and molshy wrote:
Skull wrote:

As I stated somewhere before, for you to earn what I was making twenty years ago, for hours worked, pro rata, you would have too more than double your income at today's date. And if that's not a downward spiral, I don't know what is?

And I'm sure the summers were warmer, kids only spoke when spoken to and milk was proper milk.
It's nice to reminisce but it's just simply not true!


The Key words are Pro rata. Fare tariffs were I think nearly 40% less twenty years ago. The cost of living was a fraction of what it is now with diesel being about a tenth of your earnings. Oh and tips were around 20% of your earnings.

I could do over fifty jobs on a Saturday night and 25 - 30 jobs on any week night.


So don't talk shi*e!

Oh and if my memory serves me correctly, the cost of a taxi was about £18000 - £20000.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:03 am 
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LongshanksED wrote:
Skull wrote:
The last time Edinburgh de-restricted, what Ph drivers there were, made the jump to driving a taxi. Now just think what would happen to Edinburgh Airport if that were to happen. It wouldn't be in the hands of Ph for long, that's for sure. :-|


Not true. Why are PH in the airport at the moment? Because the airports owners decided they wanted a choice between taxis and PH for passengers. As long as the airport decides they want that choice for passengers then PH will be at the airport


The airports, like the railways, don't give a shecht about passengers, except as a source of income. The contract says more about their liking for money than it does any concern for passengers.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:58 am 
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And Artur, I had books that dated back to 1991-1993, which showed Monday nights where, between the hours of 17:00h and 01:30 I had around £130 on the clock for approximately £8 – £9 of fuel with £20 in tips. And that was with, at least, 36% less on the tariff you operate today. Your tariff might be even higher now. I'm not sure.

And my first house was 35K.

The only reason I am not quoting you the exact figure is because I threw these books our years ago.

Oh and Artur, if you compare my earnings to that of self-employed tradesmen or semi-professional people twenty years ago, to what these people are earning now, it's frightening. Taxi driving was seen as a well-paid job, and now it's more like working at McDonald's. :-|


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Skull wrote:
Artur and molshy wrote:
Skull wrote:

As I stated somewhere before, for you to earn what I was making twenty years ago, for hours worked, pro rata, you would have too more than double your income at today's date. And if that's not a downward spiral, I don't know what is?

And I'm sure the summers were warmer, kids only spoke when spoken to and milk was proper milk.
It's nice to reminisce but it's just simply not true!


The Key words are Pro rata. Fare tariffs were I think nearly 40% less twenty years ago. The cost of living was a fraction of what it is now with diesel being about a tenth of your earnings. Oh and tips were around 20% of your earnings.

I could do over fifty jobs on a Saturday night and 25 - 30 jobs on any week night.


So don't talk shi*e!

Oh and if my memory serves me correctly, the cost of a taxi was about £18000 - £20000.



So it was all pretty relative then??? Jeezo Skull you could argue with yourself!

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"I'm going to tell you the story about the geese which fly 5,000 miles from Canada to France. They fly in V-formation but the second ones don't fly. They're the subs for the first ones. And then the second ones take over - so it's teamwork."


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Skull wrote:
And Artur, I had books that dated back to 1991-1993, which showed Monday nights where, between the hours of 17:00h and 01:30 I had around £130 on the clock for approximately £8 – £9 of fuel with £20 in tips.
I'm not going to discuss earnings in great detail but that's not unattainable. You do realise the price of a barrel of oil is through the roof? Also cheap credit has allowed people to own their own car more easily.

And that was with, at least, 36% less on the tariff you operate today. Your tariff might be even higher now. I'm not sure.
I'm sure you're aware the cost of living rises also.

And my first house was 35K.
The only reason I am not quoting you the exact figure is because I threw these books our years ago.

Oh and Artur, if you compare my earnings to that of self-employed tradesmen or semi-professional people twenty years ago, to what these people are earning now, it's frightening. Taxi driving was seen as a well-paid job, and now it's more like working at McDonald's. :-|
Greater competition and more modes of transport. Some might say the pay is correct for an unskilled profession. And Skull I know a few in other professions who've lost everything due to the recession.

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"I'm going to tell you the story about the geese which fly 5,000 miles from Canada to France. They fly in V-formation but the second ones don't fly. They're the subs for the first ones. And then the second ones take over - so it's teamwork."


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Artur, are you being deliberately obtuse?

Let me put it another way. Twenty years ago, I had a mortgage, two cars, a wife and three of a family and all supported solely on the income I made from driving a taxi.

Now pretend you are working in MacDonald's, at today's date, and you are trying to do the same. Well, that's about where you find yourself driving a taxi in comparison to what I was earning twenty years ago. :-|


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