Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Thu May 07, 2026 5:52 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm
Posts: 37494
Location: Wayneistan
Refuse a fare? Scunthorpe taxi drivers told they’ll get 8-12 points on their licence


SCUNTHORPE cabbies have voiced their anger over new rules that they say could put them in danger.

As part of their Licensing Taxi Policy, North Lincolnshire Council has suggested drivers could receive eight to 12 points on their Hackney licence if they refuse fares "without a reasonable excuse" – with 12 points meaning they could lose their licence.

Now drivers have set up a new association to challenge the rules.

John Fleming, owner of Triple A Taxis and chairman of the new Scunthorpe branch of the National Taxi Association, said the drivers objected to the proposals.

He said: "At a licensing committee meeting we were told that we had to take fares no matter what and if we refuse for any reason we will be prosecuted.

"What happens if I get someone in my taxi who is threatening? I'm worried about my safety. Where is the safety for the drivers?

"There has been no consultation with us on this."

At a meeting this week, taxi drivers spoke of being verbally and physically abused and losing money because of people running off without paying.

One driver, Mahmoud Asaduzzaman, said: "Someone got into my car and said they did not have any money. I drove him around for about an hour and a half while he went from house to house saying he would get the money, but he didn't. I called the police, but they said it was a civil matter so I ended up with no fare."

Another, Dhilwar Hussain, said: "I refused to take somebody because they were too drunk and they smashed the window of my cab. Now the council is saying we can't refuse fares."

Another driver, Pete Hayre, said: "There are a lot of female drivers in Scunthorpe and it's putting their lives in danger."

A council spokeswoman said: "The points system will only change how the council can take action against taxi drivers. It is a middle ground rather than drivers getting prosecuted straightaway for an offence.

"National legislation states that it is a criminal offence to refuse to carry a passenger unless they have an infectious disease, have an animal with them (except if it is a service or assistance animal) or if someone is deceased.

"However it is at the council's discretion what action is taken.

"Unfortunately, the council has found that there is a need to deal with drivers who refuse to carry passengers as we have received a number of complaints.

"Enforcement action has taken place in the past and people have been refused for no other reason than the journey was too short."

Councillor Keith Vickers, who chairs the licensing committee, said he can see the difficulties, but taxi drivers cannot refuse to take fares.

He said: "If there is a reasonable reason for not taking a fare this will be considered. Every case will be considered on its own. If we receive a complaint we will look into it."

The new rules have been introduced weeks after the Telegraph revealed passengers' concerns that drivers were refusing to take them home because the journeys were short.


Read more: http://www.scunthorpetelegraph.co.uk/Re ... z38gOyblMo

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
captain cab wrote:

"National legislation states that it is a criminal offence to refuse to carry a passenger unless they have an infectious disease, have an animal with them (except if it is a service or assistance animal) or if someone is deceased.


That's a good one. =D> =D> =D>

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:35 pm
Posts: 1855
Quote:
"Someone got into my car and said they did not have any money.
That's grounds for refusal.
Quote:
I drove him around for about an hour and a half while he went from house to house saying he would get the money, but he didn't. I called the police, but they said it was a civil matter so I ended up with no fare."
Liars.
Quote:
"National legislation states that it is a criminal offence to refuse to carry a passenger unless they have an infectious disease, have an animal with them (except if it is a service or assistance animal) or if someone is deceased
A colds an infectious disease ! - They were coughing and had a runny nose, it looked like an infectious disease so I refused to take them :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57371
Location: 1066 Country
captain cab wrote:
One driver, Mahmoud Asaduzzaman, said: "Someone got into my car and said they did not have any money. I drove him around for about an hour and a half while he went from house to house saying he would get the money, but he didn't. I called the police, but they said it was a civil matter so I ended up with no fare."

Then your new association needs to educate the police.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57371
Location: 1066 Country
captain cab wrote:
Another, Dhilwar Hussain, said: "I refused to take somebody because they were too drunk and they smashed the window of my cab. Now the council is saying we can't refuse fares."

I bet they are not saying that.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:45 am
Posts: 9966
Location: Braintree, Essex.
sasha wrote:
Quote:
"Someone got into my car and said they did not have any money.
That's grounds for refusal.
Quote:
I drove him around for about an hour and a half while he went from house to house saying he would get the money, but he didn't. I called the police, but they said it was a civil matter so I ended up with no fare."
Liars.
Quote:
"National legislation states that it is a criminal offence to refuse to carry a passenger unless they have an infectious disease, have an animal with them (except if it is a service or assistance animal) or if someone is deceased
A colds an infectious disease ! - They were coughing and had a runny nose, it looked like an infectious disease so I refused to take them :wink:


If anyone gets into my motor with the flu they get told to get out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:45 am
Posts: 9966
Location: Braintree, Essex.
captain cab wrote:
Refuse a fare? Scunthorpe taxi drivers told they’ll get 8-12 points on their licence


SCUNTHORPE cabbies have voiced their anger over new rules that they say could put them in danger.

As part of their Licensing Taxi Policy, North Lincolnshire Council has suggested drivers could receive eight to 12 points on their Hackney licence if they refuse fares "without a reasonable excuse" – with 12 points meaning they could lose their licence.

Now drivers have set up a new association to challenge the rules.

John Fleming, owner of Triple A Taxis and chairman of the new Scunthorpe branch of the National Taxi Association, said the drivers objected to the proposals.

He said: "At a licensing committee meeting we were told that we had to take fares no matter what and if we refuse for any reason we will be prosecuted.

"What happens if I get someone in my taxi who is threatening? I'm worried about my safety. Where is the safety for the drivers?

"There has been no consultation with us on this."

At a meeting this week, taxi drivers spoke of being verbally and physically abused and losing money because of people running off without paying.

One driver, Mahmoud Asaduzzaman, said: "Someone got into my car and said they did not have any money. I drove him around for about an hour and a half while he went from house to house saying he would get the money, but he didn't. I called the police, but they said it was a civil matter so I ended up with no fare."

Another, Dhilwar Hussain, said: "I refused to take somebody because they were too drunk and they smashed the window of my cab. Now the council is saying we can't refuse fares."

Another driver, Pete Hayre, said: "There are a lot of female drivers in Scunthorpe and it's putting their lives in danger."

A council spokeswoman said: "The points system will only change how the council can take action against taxi drivers. It is a middle ground rather than drivers getting prosecuted straightaway for an offence.

"National legislation states that it is a criminal offence to refuse to carry a passenger unless they have an infectious disease, have an animal with them (except if it is a service or assistance animal) or if someone is deceased.

"However it is at the council's discretion what action is taken.

"Unfortunately, the council has found that there is a need to deal with drivers who refuse to carry passengers as we have received a number of complaints.

"Enforcement action has taken place in the past and people have been refused for no other reason than the journey was too short."

Councillor Keith Vickers, who chairs the licensing committee, said he can see the difficulties, but taxi drivers cannot refuse to take fares.

He said: "If there is a reasonable reason for not taking a fare this will be considered. Every case will be considered on its own. If we receive a complaint we will look into it."

The new rules have been introduced weeks after the Telegraph revealed passengers' concerns that drivers were refusing to take them home because the journeys were short.


Read more: http://www.scunthorpetelegraph.co.uk/Re ... z38gOyblMo



So basically they're cherry picking.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
Sussex wrote:
captain cab wrote:
One driver, Mahmoud Asaduzzaman, said: "Someone got into my car and said they did not have any money. I drove him around for about an hour and a half while he went from house to house saying he would get the money, but he didn't. I called the police, but they said it was a civil matter so I ended up with no fare."

Then your new association needs to educate the police.

I am not sure on this one. If the customer said they had no money BEFORE the journey commenced and the driver still agreed to take them, is this still the same as making off without payment?

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57371
Location: 1066 Country
grandad wrote:
I am not sure on this one. If the customer said they had no money BEFORE the journey commenced and the driver still agreed to take them, is this still the same as making off without payment?

No it's not, but in that case the new association needs to educate the drivers.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm
Posts: 37494
Location: Wayneistan
I wish people would consider why these folks are so peeved off before casting a view that they're all bad guys and therefore need an imaginary points system :wink:

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
captain cab wrote:
I wish people would consider why these folks are so peeved off before casting a view that they're all bad guys and therefore need an imaginary points system :wink:

Imaginary or not, many councils are now using points systems and I have not yet seen any court appeals against them.

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm
Posts: 37494
Location: Wayneistan
grandad wrote:
captain cab wrote:
I wish people would consider why these folks are so peeved off before casting a view that they're all bad guys and therefore need an imaginary points system :wink:

Imaginary or not, many councils are now using points systems and I have not yet seen any court appeals against them.


R (application of Singh) v Cardiff City Council [2012] EWCH 1852 (Admin)

:wink:

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm
Posts: 37494
Location: Wayneistan
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=19698

R (Singh) v Cardiff City Council [2012] EWHC 1852 (Admin)


R (Singh) v Cardiff City Council [2012] EWHC 1852 (Admin)This is the long awaited judgement in the judicial review brought against Cardiff City Council’s penalty point system for taxi drivers.

In brief, the Council adopted a penalty point scheme were different misdemeanours would result in different penalty points being awarded against drivers and once a driver has accumulated 10 penalty points in 3 years their licence would automatically be revoked.

Since the Magistrates’ Court on appeal is obligated in common law to determine the appeal “in the shoes of the Council” (i.e. cannot make any determination based on their opinion that the Council’s policy is erroneous) a judicial review of the policy was made.

The JD application was approved and was heard before Singh J on the 23rd of May 2012 the transcript of which is available on Licensing Resource.

Singh J stated that the introduction and enforcement of penalty point systems are not unlawful in principle.

He stated “A public authority is perfectly entitled to adopt policies which will regulate the exercise of a given discretionary power. In my judgment there is nothing wrong in principle with a licensing authority, such as the present, taking the view that the public interest justifies adopting a policy which would not lead to the suspension or revocation of a driver's licence, for example, for a single incident….there is nothing wrong in principle with the defendant authority such as the present, adopting the policy, which seeks, both in fairness to the driver potentially affected and also to protect the public interest, to have, as it were, a staged process by which the cumulative effect of incidents of misconduct may well lead ultimately to the conclusion that in the judgment of the local authority, a person is not a proper person to continue to enjoy the relevant licence.”

However, he found Cardiff’s particular approach unlawful for three reasons:

1. “The first is that the policy calls for the automatic revocation of a licence if 10 points have been accumulated in a 3 year period. That, on its face, leaves no room for judgment or discretion.” (Para. 74)

2. “The second fundamental defect is that this means that there is no consideration required, or it would appear perhaps even permitted by the policy of the underlying facts which lay behind the earlier imposition of points which a driver may have.” (Para. 76)

3. “The third fundamental defect, in my judgment, again accepting the claimant's submissions in this regard is that the policy does not recognise that the outcome even of concluding that a person is not a fit and proper person is not necessarily revocation, it may be under section 61 the sanction of suspension.” (Para. 78)

On a more important point, Singh J ruled on the question of suspending a driver’s licence under section 61 LG(MP)76 as an interim step pending the outcome of a subsequent investigation.

“In my judgment, the way in which the concept of suspension is used by Parliament is section 61 of the 1976 Act is not… to create a power of interim suspension, it is rather after a considered determination…a final decision on whether a ground for either revocation, or suspension of a licence is made out, for there to be either revocation or, as a lesser sanction, a sanction of suspension.”

This means is would be unlawful for a Council to suspend a driver’s licence as an interim step where, for example, the driver is subject to any form of investigation following an allegation or complaint. Revocation or suspension should only be used as a determination of the (un)fitness of the driver.

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130
Hmm, so the Judge states that penalty point systems are NOT unlawful in principle but the system used by Cardiff was SPECIFICALLY unlawful on 3 points.
Our own system states that a person accumulating 12 points in any 12 month period may have to appear before the committee. It doesn't state that there will be an automatic revocation or suspension. Does that mean that it is lawful?

_________________
Grandad,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm
Posts: 37494
Location: Wayneistan
grandad wrote:
Hmm, so the Judge states that penalty point systems are NOT unlawful in principle but the system used by Cardiff was SPECIFICALLY unlawful on 3 points.
Our own system states that a person accumulating 12 points in any 12 month period may have to appear before the committee. It doesn't state that there will be an automatic revocation or suspension. Does that mean that it is lawful?


yes, a council cannot fetter its discretion

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 880 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group