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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:54 pm 
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This is presumably about adopting the IoL guidelines, but the article doesn't actually state that :?


'10 year bans for cabbies convicted of violence too long', most Wakefield taxi drivers say

https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news ... -1-9870543

Taxi drivers in Wakefield have claimed automatic 10 year bans for cabbies convicted for a violent offence are too harsh.

The local group representing drivers likened the proposed idea to giving sweet-stealing children the same punishments as "career criminals".

Councils in Leeds, Calderdale, Kirklees, York and Wakefield are considering applying a blanket set of rules to the taxi industry in a bid to avoid big policy differences between local areas.

All five authorities want to impose automatic bans on drivers convicted of a list of offences.

These would include a decade-long licence suspension for any cabbie convicted of a violent crime, and seven years for dishonesty, discrimination and weapon related offences.

However, a majority of those surveyed in Wakefield about the plans said they believed all of those punishments would be too long.

Forty-four of the 50 people who responded to the public consultations were either licensed drivers, a private hire operator or a proprietor. The remaining six were all members of the public.

On the issue of violent offences, 38 of those surveyed said 10 years was too big a punishment.

The Wakefield Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Drivers Association called for a more flexible approach to bans, and said each case should be judged on its merits.

In a letter to the council, the union's consultant Christopher Woodrow said: "Without hesitation, the association support the council in their endeavours to set appropriate standards to regulate all aspects of (trade).

"It is only by setting and maintaining such standards that they will be properly recognised by being the only safe and reliable demand responsive transport service that operates door-to-door, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

"In the circumstances, a person as a juvenile convicted of stealing sweets is not going to be treated the same as a career criminal who has many convictions for shoplifting or the same as a dwelling house burglar or those involved in the Hatton Garden safe deposit burglary, despite all being guilty of offences of dishonesty."

The association has put forward its own counter-proposal, which it says would give councils more flexibility to give punishments befitting of the crime, and offers convicted drivers the chance for rehabilitation.

The council responded to the letter in detail, saying that the proposals required each case to be "treated on its own merits".

The survey did indicate however, that drivers and the public supported indefinite bans for those convicted of exploitation, sexual offences and causing death or serious injury.

A report going before Wakefield councillors next week has indicated the proposed bans should be adopted in full, and noted that a number of the responses from people in the district were "at odds with wider regional opinion".

It added that West Yorkshire Police's child sexual exploitation team were in support of the plans, as well as the NHS' safeguarding children unit.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:27 pm 
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Location: Stamford Britains prettiest town till SKDC ruined it
Not so sure I agree with that it demonstrates that they are a risk

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:25 pm 
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Quote:
The local group representing drivers likened the proposed idea to giving sweet-stealing children the same punishments as "career criminals".

Nonsense, and a silly comparison.

Quote:
The Wakefield Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Drivers Association called for a more flexible approach to bans, and said each case should be judged on its merits.

Can't argue with that though.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:14 pm 
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New rules for Wakefield taxi drivers approved in bid to make industry safer

https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news ... -1-9884807

Image
Image: Wakefield Express

Tight new rules for the taxi industry in Wakefield, including automatic bans for drivers convicted of certain offences, will come into force in September.

The move is designed to bring councils across West Yorkshire and York in line with each other on standards, in a bid to dissuade drivers getting their licence from one authority and then working in another area.

A local group representing around 600 taxi drivers was concerned about the bans, and likened the proposals to treating "sweet-stealing children" the same as "career criminals".

They said there should be more focus on rehabilitating offending drivers and that each case should be treated on its individual merits.

But public consultations in other parts of the region indicated a more favourable view to the proposals.

And Wakefield Council said that the proposals still offered flexibility when considering sanctions against convicted drivers.

On Wednesday the authority's licensing committee was told that the new rules were in line with guidance published by the Institute of Licensing last year.

Council officer Helen Earnshaw said: "If we didn't adopt this, we'd have to show our reasons why to the government.

"I think it's recognised that there needs to be more harmonisation on taxi policy across the country, so drivers won't just go to one authority (for a licence) that might have lesser standards.

"The new policy categorises offences. The more offences you try to list you often find there's one that's not been listed, and that can cause problems."

Cabbies who've spent more than three months out of the UK in the past three years will now also need to produce a "certificate of good conduct" from the country they've lived in to obtain or keep a licence.

In one change from the original proposals, drivers convicted of a minor road offence would have to wait three years before reapplying for their licence, rather than five.

Those who use a mobile phone while driving however, will still be banned for five years.

Ms Earnshaw added: "We would take action if someone had seven points or more on their driving licence.

"So if they've been caught speeding twice and got six points, they wouldn't be caught out."

Councillors voted to approve the new measures but agreed to delay implementing them until September 1 to allow time for the changes to be communicated.

Length of bans for taxi drivers after single conviction

Crimes resulting in death of another person - Lifelong ban (any application automatically refused)

Exploitation - Lifelong ban

Violence (including arson, riot, terrorism offences, harassment, common assault and criminal damage) - 10 years

Possession of a weapon or any other weapon related offence - 7 years

Sex and indecency offences - Lifelong ban

Dishonesty - 7 years

Drugs supply - 10 years

Drugs use - 5 years

Discrimination - 7 years

Drink driving/driving under the influence of drugs - 7 years

Driving while using handheld mobile phone or other handheld device - 5 years

Minor traffic or vehicle related offences - 3 years

Major traffic or vehicle related offences - 7 years

Vehicle use offences - 7 years


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:16 pm 
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Quote:
Council officer Helen Earnshaw said: "If we didn't adopt this, we'd have to show our reasons why to the government."


Why's that? :-s

Quote:
Violence (including arson, riot, terrorism offences, harassment, common assault and criminal damage) - 10 years


Nothing crude about that at all [-(


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:05 pm 
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In one change from the original proposals, drivers convicted of a minor road offence would have to wait three years before reapplying for their licence, rather than five.

Madness.

Idiots making idiotic rules.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:08 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Quote:
Violence (including arson, riot, terrorism offences, harassment, common assault and criminal damage) - 10 years


Nothing crude about that at all [-(

10 year ban for criminal damage. FFS. ](*,)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:09 pm 
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Almost a carbon copy of the Huddersfield/Kirklees piece today in another thread.

Think they have a good case here about the crude and draconian nature of all this, particularly in view of the earlier article in this thread above.

But don't think playing the race card will get them very far.

And, once again, the usual council comments about the WDA. They seem to think there should only be one association or union representing the trade. Obviously makes things easier for them, but I'd imagine a council covering a population of 300,000 (and presumably more than one thousand HCDs and PHDs) might expect to deal with several representative groups [-(


Angry Wakefield taxi drivers protest against new rules that could see them lose licences

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/wes ... t-23276416

The rules have already prompted protests and strikes in Huddersfield and Leeds

Taxi drivers protested furiously outside Wakefield Town Hall in a row over rules enforced by the district council.

Around two dozen drivers from the Wakefield Drivers Association (WDA) gathered outside the Wood Street building on Wednesday lunchtime and called on senior councillors to resign.

A small police presence attended to observe what was a peaceful protest.

Cabbies claim drivers who rack up more than six points on their licence in three years are facing lengthy bans from the trade because of Wakefield Council’s “unfair” suitability policy.

The council doesn’t recognise the WDA, however, and says all its rules are in place to keep the travelling public safe.

The union it does recognise, the Wakefield Private Hire and Hackney Carriage Drivers Association (WDHCPCA), did not support the strike, in a repeat of their stance from July, when the WDA first protested.

Speaking angrily through a megaphone on the Town Hall steps, WDA president Yasar Ahmed said: “The council has made itself very, very clear. They’re not going to talk to (us).

“If the officers are running this council, then this council should resign.

“These unelected officers should not be running the council.

“In the last two years they haven’t given us one meeting.

“They’re not going to talk to us. How dare you?! How dare you?!”

“We’re being treated like second-class citizens.”

Similar protests have also been held in Huddersfield and in Leeds, where a strike over a weekend prompted fury as people were left stranded after nights out in the city centre.

Wakefield East councillor Akef Akbar attended the protest and also made a brief speech in support of the drivers.

He also claimed the council’s refusal to talk to the WDA was because of race and amounted to “discrimination”.

The council strongly denies that suggestion

Speaking to the LDRS later, Coun Akbar said: “Nobody’s saying that drivers shouldn’t be banned for serious offences – assaults and sexual offences – the public needs to be protected.

“However, when you’re talking about someone on six points potentially facing losing their livelihood – there needs to be justice and punishment, but there also needs to be rehabilitation as well.

“For a driver that spends 12 to 15 hours a day on the road, they might do 35 miles per hour in a 30 miles per hour zone once, and that’s three points.

“It’s not good enough to say they’re only recognising one union.

“The reason I say it’s about race is because more than 90 per cent of drivers come from a Pakistani background.

“Their voices are not being heard and they’re being unfairly discriminated against.

“Whether there’s one union or 10 unions, no solution’s been found. They’ve been ping-ponging over this for years.”

Glynn Humphries, the council’s corporate director for communities, said: “We are committed to working with the trade and championing passenger safety that protects the health and wellbeing of the travelling public and the council’s policies are designed to support this.

“The Wakefield District Private Hire and Hackney Carriage Association, who represent the majority of drivers in the district, have informed the council they do not support the demonstration and will not be participating.”

On Coun Akbar’s comments specifically, Mr Humphries’ colleague Antony Sadler responded: “We do not discriminate against anyone on racial or any other grounds.

“These policies are aimed at protecting the travelling public and all drivers and operators are required to comply with these policies, irrespective of race.”


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:10 pm 
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WDA rep wrote:
“For a driver that spends 12 to 15 hours a day on the road, they might do 35 miles per hour in a 30 miles per hour zone once, and that’s three points."

Fair point about the speeding angle, but... ](*,)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:04 am 
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Note this is a news release on the GMB's website, so to that degree might be regarded as union propaganda. And, of course, the council adopting the 'charter' might be little more than PR and glad-handing towards the GMB and the trade. Whether in reality it means anything, who knows? :?

Looks quite flash on the GMB's fancy pants website, so to that extent I almost put it in a new thread, but in reality it's probably best just added to this one...


New Wakefield taxi charter will improve transport

https://www.gmb.org.uk/news/new-wakefie ... -transport

A new taxi charter adopted by Wakefield Council will pave the way for better transport in the city, says GMB Union.

The charter received national endorsement at GMB’s congress in Harrogate this week.

GMB has now agreed with Wakefield Council to build a new consultation framework for drivers enabling the union and the local authority to review all licensing policy.

Drivers are concerned about a new licensing suitability and conviction policy that came into force across the entire Yorkshire region in 2020 – but the effects of which were only felt now business as picked up pos-pandemic,

Changes included much stricter punishments for drivers for minor offences - while drivers accept the need to improve passenger safety, there was a lot of criticism about the lack of consultation and the disproportionate and unfair way sanctions were set out.

Peter Davies, GMB Senior Organiser, said:

“Our members are always keen to improve taxi services and especially when it comes to the safety of their passengers.

“That’s why we have set out a new taxi charter to help us work with councils to achieve that in a constructive way that takes the welfare and living standards of drivers into full account too.

“But all improvements must be agreed, driver input is vital in that process, as is the public’s.

“That's been somewhat lacking in the past three years and this new agreement goes a long way to putting that right.

“I want to extend my appreciation to Wakefield Council as they become the first local authority to endorse the charter and agree full policy reviews this year, something the GMB are now asking for in all Yorkshire local authorities.”


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:31 am 
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Wakefield again :roll:

There are later threads about this, but think this was the original thread when the policy was introduced. Three years later and they're having a consultation and review :-o

Of course, could be a bit like Leeds and they're just going through the motions, and nothing much will change. Suspect they'll refine the policy, but it's not going to be totally binned.


Wakefield's controversial taxi driver policy to be reviewed with eight-week consultation period

https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news ... od-3861628

Wakefield’s taxi driver suitability policy is to be reviewed after councillors voted in favour of holding a consultation over its controversial licensing rules.

Taxi drivers in the city have staged regular protests in the city since the local authority adopted ‘fit and proper’ guidelines for cabbies in 2019.

Drivers who rack up more than six points on their licence in three years currently face lengthy bans from the trade.

Wakefield Drivers Association claim the council’s taxi licensing regulations are unfair.

The group has demanded that the Council scrap the so-called ‘six point ban’ and relax other rules, including extending the life of taxi vehicles, as they struggle during the cost of living crisis.

Members of Wakefield Council’s Licensing Committee today voted in favour of holding a consultation to review the policy.

Licensing officer Christopher Burnett said: “The current suitability policy is a document which the council has used to determine whether a driver is fit and proper.

“There is a whole raft of elements to the suitability policy.

“Our current policy was adopted in September 2019.

“It is three years since it was brought in.

“There have been some questions about the policy and some issues raised about it.

“As an authority we now feel that after three years it is appropriate to revisit the policy and review it.

Mr Burnett added: “That is not to say the policy will change.

“We will consult and see if we can address some of the issues that arise at the moment.

“What we are seeking is to go out to consultation. It will be a very, very comprehensive review.

“We want to get this policy right and where it needs to be.”

Councillors voted in favour of holding an eight-week consultation period.

The results will then be analysed and a report of the findings will be considered in January.

David Pickersgill, deputy chair of the committee, said: “Clearly, this is a high profile issue.

“This is an opportunity for people to raise their concerns after the three years that it has been operating.”


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:48 pm 
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Quote:
Mr Burnett added: “That is not to say the policy will change.

I bet parts of it does.

Councils don't review after 3 years, especially when 2 of them covered lockdowns, unless councillors and/or officials want changes.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:55 am 
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3 to 5 year ban for minor motoring or mobile phone use offences is a bit harsh, especially when mobile phone use is up there with with the same ban as drug use.
The traffic commissioner in relation to vocational truck and bus driver punishments are not that harsh for 1 offence, it's either a meeting with them for tea and biscuits, or at minimum a 4 week suspension, only a repeat offender would be likely to lose their bus or truck licence for a long period of time.
Can't be right that councils can be given more powers to strip drivers of a vocational licence than what DVLA or the Traffic Commissioner has!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:07 am 
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Yes, the drivers dealt with by the Traffic Commissioners certainly an interesting comparison, particularly for driving offences per se.

But, of course, the comparison can only go so far, because HGV drivers (and to a lesser extent, bus drivers) aren't in a confined space with the radge population. Er, I mean vulnerable members of the public :-o

But the latter is where stuff like a history of violence, dishonesty and sexual offences, will be more relevant to a taxi driver than a trucker.

But you'd think that for the likes of a mobile phone offence a taxi driver shouldn't be treated more harshly than a bus or truck driver. In fact, more like the reverse, in view of the greater danger posed by an out of control 40-tonner, say :-|


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:59 am 
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Don't know why I bothered with all of this article, but there's a link to the survey at the end. And certainly ample opportunity for anyone to make their views known on the nitty gritty of it all over 20 questions :-o

Would be interested to see some of the contributions, though. In fact, scrap that - suspect it's dealing with the input into stuff like this is why I wouldn't want to work in local government :lol:

Not sure if non-residents etc are eligible to complete the survey, but as far as I can tell you can read all the questions without actually inputting anything :idea:


Public consultation launched over Wakefield Council’s taxi driver suitability policy

https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news ... cy-3882777

Wakefield Council has launched a public consultation over its controversial taxi driver suitability policy.

An eight-week consultation has begun to decide if its current policy is still effective in protecting the public.

The policy determines if someone is safe and suitable to become or stay a licensed hackney carriage or private hire driver.

Wakefield district residents are being asked to contribute by completing a survey that asks their opinions on the existing policy.

These include some questions on whether the current time periods between drivers committing certain offences and being considered for a licence is appropriate.

Taxi drivers in the city have staged regular protests since the local authority adopted ‘fit and proper’ guidelines for cabbies three years ago.

Drivers who rack up more than six points on their licence in three years currently face lengthy bans from the trade.

Wakefield Drivers Association claim the council’s taxi licensing regulations are unfair.

The group has demanded that the Council scrap the so-called ‘six point ban’ and relax other rules as they struggle during the cost of living crisis.

Members of Wakefield Council’s Licensing Committee voted in favour of holding a consultation to review the policy at a meeting last month.

Coun Michelle Collins, Wakefield Council’s Cabinet Member for Resources, said: “Wakefield Council recognises the importance of hackney carriage and private hire drivers.

“They often drive our most vulnerable residents and are the first point of contact for many of the visitors to our district.

“People travelling in taxis and private hire vehicles, licensed by Wakefield Council, need to be confident that drivers meet standards that ensure they are safe.

“We want to work in partnership with the people of the Wakefield district, to see if we need to make changes or improvements to our suitability policy.

“Consultation is at the heart of this as it provides us with vital information about how we can meet the diverse needs of people living, studying, and working in the district.

“I’d urge everyone to spare a bit of time to let us know what they think”.

The current suitability policy was introduced in September 2019.

Last month the Council’s Licensing Committee voted to review it.

Once the consultation is concluded, the response will be reviewed and presented to the Licensing Committee on January 25, 2023.

The survey can be accessed at https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/HZ9P3N3

The closing date is Friday 2 December 2022.


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