Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:38 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 6367
I'm sure this has been covered before, but can't find the topic, and not sure if there was ever a definitive conclusion anyway.

Does normal hire and reward insurance cover food deliveries? Would this matter if it was a normal cab office or the likes of Deliveroo or Uber Eats?

Looking round the web, I suspect it depends on the particular policy wording.

There's at least one taxi driver here working for Deliveroo, but he's using a standard car rather than his taxi, so I think he just needs some sort of top up insurance in addition to his SDP policy on his car.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:06 pm
Posts: 22560
Location: A City near Birmingham
no

nor any pure courier work

courier work requires "common carrier" insurance and GIT (Goods in Transit)

taxi/ph have "private carrier" insurance

however most insurers just need to be advised

_________________
Freedom is never free


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 46384
Location: 1066 Country
I beg to differ with Mr Wannabe.

Many times we take stuff from A to B for hire and reward, and I'm covered for that. At least my broker says so.

Struggling to see how goods can be covered if the owner of those goods is in the car, but not if the owner isn't in the car.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 46384
Location: 1066 Country
Quote:
There's at least one taxi driver here working for Deliveroo, but he's using a standard car rather than his taxi, so I think he just needs some sort of top up insurance in addition to his SDP policy on his car.

Many of the Ubers down here also do work for Uber Eats.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 18395
Sussex wrote:
I beg to differ with Mr Wannabe.

Many times we take stuff from A to B for hire and reward, and I'm covered for that. At least my broker says so.

Struggling to see how goods can be covered if the owner of those goods is in the car, but not if the owner isn't in the car.

A few years ago we had a licensing officer who insisted that taxis were only insured to carry passengers. The topic is on here somewhere. At the time i rang our insurance company up and was advised that we were covered for something like occaasional carriage of goods but if it became regular then we would need GIT insurance and this could be added to our policy if we wanted for a nominal fee that was probably the adjustment fee of £30.00

_________________
Grandad,
old fart with no heart


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 6367
grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
I beg to differ with Mr Wannabe.

Many times we take stuff from A to B for hire and reward, and I'm covered for that. At least my broker says so.

Struggling to see how goods can be covered if the owner of those goods is in the car, but not if the owner isn't in the car.

A few years ago we had a licensing officer who insisted that taxis were only insured to carry passengers. The topic is on here somewhere.

You certainly mentioned that in this topic, which was about a Sheffield firm diversifying into food deliveries:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35163


According to Deliveroo's website, it's just hire and reward insurance you need. This is what it says about using cars and scooters (bicycle riders are covered by Deliveroo's insurance):

https://riders.deliveroo.com/en-gb/supp ... -do-i-need

Deliveroo wrote:
Hire and Reward (H&R)

Your SD&P insurance does not cover you for your food delivery work with Deliveroo. If you’re delivering food in return for payment, in addition to SD&P you’ll need to have:

    Hire and reward insurance, or

    Fast food delivery insurance, or

    Carriage of goods, including food, for hire and reward insurance

These are the specific type of cover that Deliveroo riders need to have in place in order to carry out food deliveries in a car or on a scooter. It covers you when you use your car or scooter for work. We’ll need to see proof of this insurance before you start riding with us.

So it's simply one of the three above that's required. I'm assuming the first category is basically the kind of insurance we have. Obviously the second category is specific to food delivery, while the third category is more generally about carriage of goods.

So it reads like HC or PH hire and reward insurance is adequate, but I think there's a specific exclusion in my policy.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 6367
This is on the Tradex website, which after going round the houses a bit basically says that you can extend cover at no cost (final paragraph). Don't know why it just isn't automatically included then. And don't know why it only refers to PH - presumably lots of HCDs will be in the same boat :?


Private Hire to Fast Food Delivery – What Insurance Do You Need?

With conventional taxi driving taking a downturn during the Covid pandemic, many private hire drivers are turning to food delivery services to keep their businesses on track. What additional courier insurance will you as a taxi driver need to make sure you are fully covered when delivering items rather than transporting people?

Although passenger numbers are down across the taxi industry, one area is bucking the trend. Despite the stock market crash in March, the share price of some home delivery companies has shot up in recent weeks. According to analysis from The Share Centre, British online food order and delivery service Just Eat’s share price has risen by 16.5 per cent since the beginning of the year, while online supermarket Ocado’s has risen by 31 per cent.

The value of shares for food subscription company HelloFresh has risen by 99 per cent, Naked Wines by 50 per cent and Amazon, which has the Amazon Pantry service, by 34 per cent. It’s no understatement to say that the food delivery service market is ravenous.

Changing Your Insurance

If you decide to change from private hire taxi work to a food delivery courier, then you’ll need to put the correct insurance in place to protect you against the potential risks you face. As oppose to private hire insurance, courier insurance includes goods in transit cover up to an agreed amount, which protects the items you deliver should they be lost, damaged (food spoiled) or stolen.

Heavyweight champion boxer Tyson Fury reportedly paid a whopping £557 for pizzas and chicken wings in a bumper food delivery in lockdown with his family in Morecambe, so it’s worth having cover in place just in case.

When choosing the right level of cover for your food courier delivery business, it’s important to consider that you’ll spend most of your time on the road, which increases your chances of being involved in an accident or suffering loss. It may also mean you are working in more city areas with greater volume of traffic. If you already have private hire insurance in place, you will be covered with a road risks policy. It’s worth checking if that level is still suitable for your needs. The three levels offered include:

    Third party only: This is the minimum cover required by law and will protect third party liabilities in the event of an accident.

    Third party fire and theft: Includes the same cover as third party only with the addition of protection for fire or the theft of your vehicle.

    Comprehensive: Provides the same cover as third-party fire and theft but also protects you and your vehicle for any damage sustained because of an accident.


Courier Insurance Upgrade

Courier insurance premiums tend to be more expensive than general private vehicle insurance. That’s because there are additional risks associated with the high mileage such as making multiple address drop-off stops and working against the clock (free curry anyone?)

In addition to your normal vehicle insurance, you may need public liability insurance, which covers you against legal costs and injury compensation claims if you’re blamed for injury to the public or for property. This isn’t a legal necessity but is a prudent precaution if the business involves contact with any third party - a person or entity that isn’t an employee of the business. If anyone is injured, you could potentially face costly legal action which would be covered.

If you have employees, you are also legally obliged to put employers’ liability insurance in place. It protects the interest of employees and supplements the company’s own health and safety procedures.

Courier and Fast Food Delivery Cover at No Extra Cost for Taxi Policies

Tradex wants to support customers by enabling them to work and support the communities that they live in. New and existing taxi drivers that have taken out a policy with Tradex can now include courier and fast food delivery insurance cover at no additional cost. Give us a call for more details.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 6367
This is from a firm called Plan Insurance Brokers. This also goes round the houses a bit, but also seems to conclude that you would need extra cover and a normal HC/PH policy won't do =;


Food and parcels delivery… Insured or not Insured?

https://www.planinsurance.co.uk/blog/fo ... t-insured/


Uber Eats, Deliveroo, Amazon... if anyone with a driving licence wishes to supplement their income, the options are there. Whether the pay and working conditions will prove acceptable is another matter altogether – and one to cover in another blog – but the question stands: are these drivers correctly insured?

The parcel and food delivery industries are booming and getting transformed by the gig economy. Students, part-time workers, public and private hire drivers may find it an appealing way to earn more money, working as and when they want to. However, many might not be aware of the type of insurance needed to carry out such activities or the limitations of the cover they are using.

Simple “Social Domestic & Pleasure” or strict “taxi and private hire insurance" policies will not provide cover for delivering Big Macs for UberEats, or ferrying Amazon grocery bags around. A courier policy is needed. It's an important point to make because the cover required is significantly more expensive.

Courier policies cost more for a reason - due to the challenge of fulfilling multiple, time critical deliveries in a high pressure environment, courier drivers tend to have more accidents than other motorists. So potentially many of the companies that are at the forefront of the emerging food delivery market could be gaining an unfair advantage by using drivers who are avoiding (whether knowingly or not) a significant overhead. Additionally ordinary motorists may be supplementing their insurance costs via their higher premiums.

What is "Hire and Reward" insurance?

Hire and Reward Insurance is a type of insurance that covers you to carry goods or passengers in return for payment. Typically, taxi and private hire drivers, chauffeurs, food delivery drivers and couriers will all need some form of Hire and Reward insurance.

What the policy covers, however, depends on the occupation you declared when arranging cover.

All insurance policies come with either a Proposal Form (PF) or a Statement of Fact (SOF). On these documents, it will confirm your details - such as Name, Address, Date of Birth, Claims, Convictions etc.

One of the questions will be, ‘What is (are) your occupation(s)?’

Options could be:

    Public Hire Driver
    Taxi Driver
    Chauffeur Driver
    Private Hire Driver
    Private & Public Hire Driver
    Courier
    etc.

Also, it will show any other occupations declared - such as Shop Work or Office Admin etc.

Now, since this document is used to form the basis of the insurance contract, the declared occupation(s) is (are) what the insurers are covering you for… Quite simply, if the documents only state ‘Private Hire Driver’, then this is what you are getting covered for, and NOT for being a goods delivery driver.

However, it is worth noting that a Taxi Driver, a Private Hire Driver or a Chauffeur can carry packages, parcels and luggage etc. during the course of their work: if this is in connection with the job they declared when purchasing the policy, then their insurer will cover them in the event of a claim (policy limits and exclusions apply).

Let's take the example of a private hire driver, with a hire & reward policy, having declared as sole occupation: "private hire".

In the event of a claim, the insurance provider will ask the question: ‘what was the purpose of your journey when then the incident occurred?’

If the explanation fits in with the occupation declared (i.e. “they were following a lead vehicle with clients’ luggage or parcels”), then the insurer will cover (policy limitations and exclusions permitting).

However, if the driver was working to deliver an Amazon parcel at the time of the incident, then the insurers would deem this NOT to be related to the occupation they have declared, and they would decline cover; this would be deemed either Courier or Light Haulage use of the vehicle and not, in our example, "Private Hire" use. We have spoken to leading insurers and they have confirmed that they would reject any claims on this basis should they come to light .

Is it possible to get cover for both passengers and goods?

It is possible to declare that you are both a Taxi or Private Hire driver and a Courier, and therefore be covered for both. For the reasons stated above, if you are already a Private Hire driver wishing to add cover for courier purposes, it is likely that your insurer will charge you a higher premium.

Also certain companies like Uber or Amazon may offer add-on options to cover specifically the deliveries made for the particular purpose of delivering their goods. Beware though, as:

Such an add-on could invalidate your main policy – we strongly advise you to speak to your broker or insurer to ensure that they are happy to cover a vehicle also covered by another company;

Look at the fine print (what’s the excess, what is covered and when – i.e. is your journey to pick up a parcel from/in the warehouse covered by this add-on?)

One last point for drivers providing food delivery services to consider is on the subject of liability. Have you checked whether the app provider you're working for will accept responsibility for complaints relating to food safety and hygiene? Often to save costs, fresh food, such as chicken is being delivered in cool boxes rather than purpose built refrigerated vehicles that the likes of Sainsburys, Tesco or Waitrose, etc might use.

So, for example: if a long delay occurs due to severe traffic on a very hot day the cool boxes used to store the food may not remain sufficiently cold for the extended duration of the trip. The recipient of the order may take delivery of contaminated food, fall sick as a result and lodge a claim for compensation. Who will pick up the bill? Public liability is included with many "hire and reward" policies but in these circumstances, it's unlikely your motor insurer will accept liability, especially if you've not declared your occupation as a food delivery driver.

To summarise, if you wish to be covered for both the transport of passengers and goods, you must declare that you are a Taxi or Private Hire Driver and a Courier Driver, and get appropriate cover. Many drivers may ignore this fact and be operating uninsured unknowingly. We have raised the issues relating to invalid "Hire and Reward" cover numerous times in this industry. However, sadly, the regulators and other authorities don’t seem to want to take swift and robust action.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 6367
So was about to say that obviously Deliveroo's advice doesn't provide the whole picture, and you wouldn't be automatically covered. But found this via TaxiPoint - very interesting :-o

Association of British Insurers wrote:
"Insurers have committed to an additional pledge to support taxi and private hire drivers seeking alternative sources of income.

"If you are a licenced taxi or private hire driver and have hire or reward insurance in place, as of 8 April, you will not need to contact your insurer to extend your existing cover while driving this vehicle to carry parcels, medical supplies, household goods, groceries or takeaway meals during the Covid-19 restrictions.

"This commitment will be in place until the end of Covid-19 restrictions, or until 31 July 2020, whichever is sooner."

So looks like this pledge has now expired, and no sign of any updates. But interesting, nonetheless.

But in view of all the articles earlier in the year about drivers doing food and medicine deliveries, I'm surprised the insurance angle was never discussed on here. Or maybe it was, and I just wasn't paying enough attention :?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:36 pm
Posts: 1103
My interpretation of this is the extra cover is for the “goods in Transit” ie, whatever your carrying. I take it the driver is always insured under hire and reward anyway ?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 6:33 am
Posts: 6367
x-ray wrote:
My interpretation of this is the extra cover is for the “goods in Transit” ie, whatever your carrying. I take it the driver is always insured under hire and reward anyway ?

Maybe something like that, but obviously there's a degree of inconsistency between the various sources.

But it's interesting how they describe things like the difference between HCs and PHVs, suggesting that they're not really wholly converstant with licensing law, which may be one source of the confusion [-(

Take this from ChoiceQuote, for example:

ChoiceQuote wrote:
Public and private vehicles

Most insurance providers cover both private and public hire taxis but taxi insurance quotes may differ between the two. Public hire vehicles are vehicles that can be hailed in the street, booked in advance or hired from a taxi rank, such as Hackney carriages.

Private taxis, on the other hand, can only be booked in advance. Uber drivers would fall into the latter category.

First paragraph makes it sound like an HC is a kind of sub-category of a public hire vehicle. But it's either an HC or it isn't. Suspect by HC here they mean a black cab, but of course all HCs aren't black cabs [-X

Then the old 'private taxis' chesnut, by which they presumably mean PHVs.

Of course, what they say about Uber is correct. But if you look around some insurance websites they treat Uber as if it's some sort of different beast, so it's all born of the PR stuff and 'expert' commentary that views Uber as something different, while to me it's just a global PH firm with a big brand and deep pockets.

And, of course, from a licensing perspective Uber is PH. Simples =D>

But that's maybe why in another recent insuracne thread Uber treated as some kind of special category for insurance purposes.

Anyway, there's also the likes of this :-s

ChoiceQuote wrote:
What is black cab insurance?

Whether you have a private hire, PCO, or public hire licence, you need taxi insurance to drive a black cab.

#-o

ChoiceQuote wrote:
Black cabs – also known as Hackney carriages – are often used to pick up fares from paying customers who hail down taxis on the street. These are operated by public hire licenced drivers; in London, these people have passed ‘The Knowledge.’

=D>

ChoiceQuote wrote:
Some black cabs, however, are also used by private hire or PCO-licensed drivers. In these situations, the taxis must be pre-booked by customers.

:roll:

Well that's cleared that up :?

But looking at ChoiceQuote's other stuff, I think by PCO-licensed they mean PHV PCO-licensed, while HCs are also licensed by the PCO, hence the confusion.

But it's the same on other insurance sites - when they start trying to explain stuff like that, you're left with the distinct impression that they're not quite up so speed on the licensing legalities.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 46384
Location: 1066 Country
Quote:
And, of course, from a licensing perspective Uber is PH. Simples =D>

Apart from when they fulfill the booking with a hackney.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:07 am
Posts: 2574
Location: Hampshire (HC)
Zego Insurance offer a courier extension for £0.80 per hour worked. It can sit alongside standard SD&P or H&R insurance provided it's not specifically excluded from the main policy.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:17 pm
Posts: 2445
It all depends on the exact wording of the individual policy document, the small print nobody bothers to read but everyone signs to say they've read it.

There's been quite a few food delivery drivers of both cars and bikes who have achieved 6 points and a hefty fine for not having insurance while delivering take-away food and parcels.

Is there such a thing as a Public hire" licence? The answer has got to be NO. There's the hackney carriage licence, the private hire licence and possibly the only other option of "public hire" licence is that of category D or E plus public service vehicle licence.

It'll only take a few prosecutions of delivery drivers for the message to get across.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group