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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:08 pm 
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Clear as mud - first, article seems to be saying six points and you're out, then it seems to say 12 points.

And I'm assuming it's DVLA points they're talking about rather than council points, but that's not entirely clear either :?


Leeds taxi drivers protest against new license revoke policy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-51124119

Image
Image: BBC

Hundreds of taxi and minicab drivers have protested over plans to revoke their licences if they get six penalty points in a year.

Drivers demonstrated outside Leeds Civic Hall earlier against Leeds City Council's new "six point policy".

The policy comes into force on 2 February and will result in a three-year suspension of offending drivers' taxi and private hire licences.

The council said the move would "improve passenger safety".

But drivers say the policy is "too draconian" and "disproportionate".

They said under the new rules, two motoring convictions would result in immediate suspension, meaning drivers would lose their livelihood.

Leeds Hackney Carriage and Private Hire Drivers said they were under "severe pressure" to concentrate on roads and policymakers "do not understand".

"Can you imagine trying to control your speed or trying to behave in a professional manner with passengers being threatening, abusive, or with the fear that your passenger may stab you?" a statement read out at the protest said.

It follows the stabbing of a Leeds minicab driver over a £3 fare on Friday. A 17-year-old has been charged with assault, attempted robbery and possession of an offensive weapon.

Image
Image: BBC

Under the new rules, licence holders with over six points but no new cautions, convictions or points may continue to hold a taxi licence but failing to disclose new offences could mean it is suspended or revoked.

Taxi licences are suspended or revoked if drivers exceed 12 penalty points under current council policy.

The drivers demanded a "proper working party" with the council, including private hire and hackney cab representatives.

The council will meet drivers, and address the issues at a licensing committee meeting this month.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:36 pm 
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But drivers say the policy is "too draconian" and "disproportionate".

They said under the new rules, two motoring convictions would result in immediate suspension, meaning drivers would lose their livelihood.

Draconian is the correct word, along with disgraceful and shameful. [-X

Maybe the council should take the lead and sack every member of their staff with 6 points or more.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:12 pm 
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Leeds taxi drivers angry over controversial 'six point' licence rules

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... es-1378336

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Image: Yorkshire Evening Post

Upcoming changes to measures required of taxi and private hire drivers in Leeds have been met with disdain by industry representatives, who branded the changes ‘draconian’ at a meeting this week.

Around 150 taxi and private hire drivers crammed into Civic Hall’s council chamber to hear members of Leeds City Council’s licensing committee discuss concerns drivers had about the council’s suitability and convictions policy, which is set to come into force next month.

Many believed changes could mean motorists with seven or more points on their driving licence could be refused a taxi licence by the council. This is opposed to the council’s current regulations which requires applicants to have under 13 points.

Council officers clarified this wouldn’t necessarily apply to current taxi licence holders, and that, when new points were awarded for minor offences, this would be unlikely to see a licence revoked.

But unions and drivers’ associations claim proper consultation was not carried out with taxi licence holders, and that the assurances from officers were too vague.

Speaking to the meeting, Peter Davies, regional organiser for the GMB union, which represents drivers, told the committee: “Your consultation process has been real, albeit a little bit too late.

“I welcome you listening today and hearing those concerns – all we are really asking for is compromise. Nobody wants a fantastic, safe taxi service any more than the people who have packed this room out today.

“But you can get clocked at 34 in a 30 [zone] and you get caught on the way there and the way back – you’re on six points.

“To hear words like ‘this is likely’, ‘this might happen’ and ‘this can be considered’, that is not good enough for me.

“We need the consultation to be extended. Given the campaign we have seen to date, this issue is going to spread to neighbouring authorities.”

The new measures for taxi and private hire drivers were adopted by Leeds City Council’s executive committee back in November last year, and are due to come into effect in February 2020.

However, the item came before the committee due to “significant representations by hackney carriage and private hire associations, trade unions, drivers’ groups, and by private hire operators.”

Another representative, from the Unite union, claimed proper consultation was not carried out by the authority, adding: “I would like to thank you for taking it to this stage. This is like bolting the door after the horse is gone – it’s saying you are going to implement the policy but we will give you a say on the policy that already exists.

“Two hundred and fifty responses by 6,000 licence holders is not proportionate. It accounts for four per cent overall – this cannot be considered proportional.

“Not one of those I have been asked to speak on behalf of agrees with this. We will now be seeking legal advice.”

Earlier during the meeting, the item was discussed by members of the committee and Leeds City council officers, who agreed to form a working group to look further into the issue.

Coun Al Garthwaite (Lab) said: “It seems clear to me that everyone would agree the public must be kept safe, but Leeds will not remove the licence unless there are extremely good reasons based on extremely hard evidence.”

Coun Abigail Marshall (Lab) said: “Based on all the emails from the taxi drivers – if we have 240 responses, it tells us there is a big disparity.

“The drivers who have been speaking to me over the last few weeks, we have to be able to look into the consultation. We have to give some weight on how we give back to them.

“It’s not as draconian as it is made out to be – the only thing that worries me is how the consultation has been carried out.”

Coun Ryk Downes (Lib Dem) added: “There has been a consultation, it has gone through the normal process, but when you look at the level of correspondence it is clearly an emotive subject. It is of such importance, that once we develop the policy, we should keep coming back and giving the opportunity to reconsider this.”

Coun Paul Wray (Lab) said: “It comes down to communication – because of the way the information has landed, in retrospect, we have communicated in such a poor way that everyone thinks everything is going to change.

“When we are talking about things which can impact people’s livelihoods, how we communicate that matters.

Summing up, committee chair Coun Ben Garner (Lab) said: “We have discussed consultation at length – it is not automatic revocation when there are seven or more points – that is important to reiterate. As has been pointed out, this decision was sent to executive board after December 2019 committee, only they can change this.

“We have to discuss this as soon as possible, the issue of points on driving licences. Guidance about how policy will be applied on how it will be applied to existing drivers will be given to the trade as well.”

The committee then agreed to set up a working group to look into the issues, the results of which are likely to go back before the committee in the spring.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:15 pm 
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Quote:
Council officers clarified this wouldn’t necessarily apply to current taxi licence holders, and that, when new points were awarded for minor offences, this would be unlikely to see a licence revoked.

They clarified that it "wouldn't necessarily apply" and "would be unlikely" to see revocation.

So not really clarified at all, unless it means they've made clear the new process will be cloaked in uncertainty [-(


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:23 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Quote:
Council officers clarified this wouldn’t necessarily apply to current taxi licence holders, and that, when new points were awarded for minor offences, this would be unlikely to see a licence revoked.

They clarified that it "wouldn't necessarily apply" and "would be unlikely" to see revocation.

So not really clarified at all, unless it means they've made clear the new process will be cloaked in uncertainty [-(

It also begs the question as to why it wouldn't apply to existing drivers. :-k

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:23 am 
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Sure that if I could be bothered re-reading the two pieces above I posted about 18 months ago they might ring a few bells, but otherwise have zero recollection of this one 8-[

Luckily the search function has a better memory than me :lol: :-s


Fury as Leeds taxi drivers fight council policy that could see them lose their jobs

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds ... t-20981348

Protesters said the new system will put drivers who commit minor driving offences out of work

Image
Image: Leeds Live

Taxi drivers gathered outside Leeds Civic Hall to protest a new policy that could see drivers with points on their licence lose their jobs.

Leeds City Council tried to bring in the 'six-point policy' 18 months ago but held back in the face of driver uproar and a large demonstration.

But inside the council building today, the licensing committee gave its backing to an amendment that would give more leeway to drivers with points.

Rather than an immediate suspension of a driver's taxi licence once they exceed six points, the amended policy includes a sliding scale of penalties relating to the number of points.

For minor offences, drivers would also be asked to undertake extra training before suspension comes into play.

But protesters are concerned the sliding scale still allows room for harsh suspensions that could affect a driver's income, even when they may have done nothing wrong.

Ahmed Hussain, Chairman of Leeds Private Hire Driver Organisation, said: "There's discretion, there's a fit and proper person test and we want a sub-committee to decide these things.

"The officers are giving us the usage of a service [taxi license] then at the same time they are implementing the punishment.

"If they look at neighbouring councils, Bradford has a sub-committee, it's not a one-man decision whether a driver's badge gets revoked.

"In Newcastle they wait until a magistrates court finds a driver guilty or not guilty before his badge is revoked, until then he can work.

"Same with Birmingham, same with Newcastle and Sheffield."

Labour councillor for Gipton and Harehills, Arif Hussain, who was a taxi driver in Leeds for 30 years, joined the protesters outside Civic Hall.

Image
Image: Leeds Live

He said: "The consultation for the suitability process and also the report that the licensing committee are considering is not correct.

"We're talking about at least 1,000 drivers who were not emailed in 2019 for the consultation."

The licensing committee agreed to recommend the amendment to the Executive Board for consideration in September.

Further consultation with drivers and the public in that time. #-o


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:24 am 
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Leeds PHD rep wrote:
"In Newcastle they wait until a magistrates court finds a driver guilty or not guilty before his badge is revoked, until then he can work."

Neither an accurate description of how the process works, nor a credible comparison with what's proposed in Leeds [-(


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:35 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Leeds PHD rep wrote:
"In Newcastle they wait until a magistrates court finds a driver guilty or not guilty before his badge is revoked, until then he can work."

Neither an accurate description of how the process works, nor a credible comparison with what's proposed in Leeds [-(

Basically another case of drivers believing drivers who believe other drivers comments.

The truth/law gets lost in the mist of the gossip.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:24 pm 
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They are still not happy.

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds ... s-22716705

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:15 pm 
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Not sure if there's anything particularly new in this article a couple of days later, but sometimes the only way I can be bothered reading some of this stuff is by doing the legwork to post it on here :?

No real need to watch the video, but it's on the website if anyone feels the need, or just wants to put a face (and voice) to the name, etc :?


Taxi drivers to go on strike for 24 hours in Leeds

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds ... 4-22744210

'We are in the front line of danger,' says one taxi driver

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Image: LeedsLive

Leeds taxi drivers are set to strike for 24 hours next week.

The strike is due to take place from 6am this coming Monday (January 17) until 6am on Tuesday (January 18).

Cabbies are protesting Leeds City Council's Suitability and Convictions Policy, which has been in place since February 2020.

Leeds Private Hire Drivers Organisation (LPHDO) is calling for the strike, following a demonstration at Leeds Civic Hall earlier this week.

The council says it is “entitled and bound to treat the safety of the public as the paramount" but the group claims a driver could lose their license after for "minor issues”.

LPHDO Vice Chairman Zahid said they are going to keep organising different types of protest until the policy is repealed.

Zahid, who has worked for Amber Cars and has been a cabby for 24 years, said: "It's getting drivers suspended over minor issues.

"If you have a little argument with your customer, the customer isn't always right. When you know they're intoxicated, they're saying things that they shouldn't be saying.

"Within the 50 page document, there is nothing in there to safeguard the driver. The driver is in the biggest danger from intoxicated people, who in this day and age are now sniffing coke and whatever they do.

"We are in the front line of danger."

LPHDO released a video on social media, where Zahid is calling for the strike and setting out how it's going to take place.

In the video, the father-of-four said: "We're going to strike from 6am to 6am the next morning, it's a 24 hour strike in which drivers don't have to come into work whatsoever.

"Stay at home, keep your PDA switched off, let the council do their own contracts, let the school do their own...get their kids out the school. Forget about work on Monday.

"Let the council do their own contract work because they do not see us fit and proper anyway, so let them know that we are not going to sit down until we get rid of this Suitability and Convictions Policy."

Leeds City Council has been asked for a statement responding to Zahid Mahmood's claims and an explanation as to how they will deal with the strike on Monday.

Leeds City Council's policy page, reads: “The standards of safety and suitability are not set as a base minimum. They are set high to give the public the assurance it requires when using taxi services. The council does not have to strike an even balance between the driver’s right to work and the public’s right to protection. The public are entitled to be protected. This means that the council is entitled and bound to treat the safety of the public as the paramount consideration.

“The licensing process places a duty on the council to protect the public. Therefore it is essential that those seeking a living as a driver meet the required standards. As previous offending and other behaviour can be considered as a predictor in determining future behaviour, it is important that the council considers all relevant factors including previous convictions, cautions, complaints, failures to comply with licence conditions, and the time elapsed since these were committed.”


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:16 pm 
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LPHDO vice chairman wrote:
"Stay at home, keep your PDA switched off, let the council do their own contracts, let the school do their own...get their kids out the school. Forget about work on Monday."

Good luck with asking drivers not to do their school contracts.

Somehow I can't see a solid 24-hour strike happening, or anything like it :-|


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:09 pm 
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Leeds City Council pleads with taxi drivers to call off 24 hour strike

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds ... i-22760384

Striking cabbies have been asked to consider 'vulnerable adults and children' who will be affected

Leeds City Council is pleading with taxi drivers to reconsider an upcoming 24 hour strike.

The council has pleaded with cabbies to consider "vulnerable adults and children" who will be affected by this disruption if it goes ahead.

Taxi drivers have exhausted "amicable" avenues of protest "for three years" with no change, according to Leeds Private Hire Drivers Organisation (LPHDO).

The strike is due to take place from 6am on Monday (January 17) until 6am on Tuesday (January 18).

Cabbies are protesting a council safeguarding policy for the public, called the Suitability and Convictions Policy, which has been in place since February 2020.

Cabbies claim "minor issues” like a small argument could result in them losing their license.

The council says it is “entitled and bound to treat the safety of the public as the paramount", however.

In a video released by LPHDO on social media, their vice chairman Zahid Mahmood said the council would have to deal with their own contracts during the strike.

Councillor Debra Coupar, Leeds City Council's deputy leader and executive member for resources, said: “We have been made aware of the proposed strike action on Monday by the Leeds Private Hire Drivers Organisation (LPHDO).

"Our priority is to minimise the impact of this proposed action especially on vulnerable adults and children as much as we can, and to make sure everyone who may be affected is aware of the situation and any potential disruption, with solutions being identified where possible.

“We would ask the Leeds Private Hire Drivers Organisation (LPHDO) to reconsider their planned action, and continue their dialogue with us over the proposed accumulation of minor motoring convictions criterion of the suitability policy in order to achieve a positive outcome for all parties.”

Vice chairman and Amber Cars driver Zahid, who has been a cabby for 24 years, responded: ""For three years we've been in meetings, all I want to know is in all those years, what have they listened to?

"All our issues are still there. We've tried to do it the amicable way, we do not want to disrupt the public. We don't want to disrupt people's livelihoods.

"We are ready to give up our livelihoods because we know how damaging this policy is. If they are not willing to listen, what else do they want us to do?"


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:03 pm 
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Suspect a lot of people coming to this via the BBC's site will think this article is about DVLA points, not the council's own scheme. Thus as per the first article on the thread almost exactly one year ago.

But six or twelve points sounds a lot in DVLA terms, but not so much in terms of taxi licensing, thus the trade is made to look as if they're moaning in defence of people with pretty bad driving records, whereas that's not necessarily the case.

That said, some people in the trade don't have talk some nonsense :roll:


Leeds taxi strike over 'draconian' new licence rules

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-60025205

Hundreds of taxi drivers in Leeds have gone on strike over plans to revoke their licences if they get six or more penalty points in a year.

Industrial action by Leeds Private Hire Drivers Organisation began at 06:00 and is due to run until 06:00 on Tuesday.

Drivers argue the policy, due to start next month, is "too draconian".

Leeds City Council, which currently suspends or revokes a licence if a driver accrues 12 or more points, says the change will "improve safety".

Under new policy a driver who receives six or more points in a year will be suspended for three years

Zahid Mahmood from the Leeds Private Hire Drivers Organisation (LHPDO) said the plans would "make it very, very hard to get a licence in the first place".

"They're already 700 drivers short in Leeds at the moment," he said.

"With this policy coming in you're going to have more and more drivers being suspended, so when demand increases and life goes back to normal the demand will be there but there won't be any private hire drives left, or even Hackney drivers, if this policy continues."

Leeds City Council deputy leader and executive member for resources Councillor Debra Coupar said it was working on measures to minimise the disruption caused by the strike "especially for vulnerable adults and children as much as we can".

"We would ask the LPHDO to reconsider their planned action, and continue their dialogue with us over the proposed accumulation of minor motoring convictions criterion of the suitability policy in order to achieve a positive outcome for all parties," she added.

The 24-hour strike comes after drivers demonstrated outside Leeds Civic Hall on Sunday.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:02 pm 
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I think when trade reps are dealing with the press they should only send them statements, not talk to them.

Have a record of what you send, but more importantly go over it again and again until it's correct.

Making yourself look stupid via the press is not good for any trade rep.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:37 pm 
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Slightly different angle on the strike, and maybe one more likely to garner a bit of public sympathy :?


'It will continue until they listen to us': Leeds taxi drivers continue city-wide strike over Leeds Council regulations

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... ns-3530934

A Leeds taxi driver has spoken out about the lack of consistency in Leeds City Council's high standards for local drivers as strike action continues.

Current rules stipulate that Leeds based drivers must abide by all safety regulations while cars coming in from elsewhere do not.

This is part of the ongoing cross border work that allow taxi drivers to travel in from areas like Bradford to work.

John, a 28-year-old veteran of the city's taxi trade, told the YEP how the lack of consistency in standards just makes no sense.

"In Leeds there is a much higher standard both cars, driver, knowledge of the area and I agree with it but in areas like Bradford it is a lot easier to get a badge." he explained.

"Bradford cars can come into Leeds and work in cars that can be up to 15-years-old but for local drivers Leeds council only allow cars of up to 7-years due to public safety."

Confusion over such contradictory standards is just one of many reasons which has seen taxi drivers across the city take strike action.

Leeds Private Hire Drivers Organisation (LPHDO) have called for the protest against the council's Suitability and Convictions policy with many feeling that their views are falling on death ears.

For John he feels the UK wide taxi driver standard is needed to ensure all drivers are held to the same high standard in the name of public safety.

"There's no national standard for taxi drivers, all district council's have different standards so we are seeing cars coming that are a lot older." John said. "They are not up to our standard, I have to have a basic knowledge test to work in Leeds but those coming in do not."

The strike action is furthered by convictions rulings that can see drivers flat out banned without follow up or corroboration if a customer complains.

Speaking prior to today's strike action LPHDO Vice Chairman Zahir Mahmood expressed his feeling that cab drivers are taken for granted.

"The problem in Leeds is the council and the regulator can get away with anything while the taxi driver can't get away with even a minor thing." he said. "If I have an argument on the road with someone and they make a complaint against me then I get suspended straight away without any follow up."

In a statement provided to the YEP Coun Debra Coupar said:

“We have been made aware of the proposed strike action on Monday by the Leeds Private Hire Drivers Organisation (LPHDO). Our priority is to minimise the impact of this proposed action especially on vulnerable adults and children as much as we can, and to make sure everyone who may be affected is aware of the situation and any potential disruption, with solutions being identified where possible.

“We would ask the Leeds Private Hire Drivers Organisation to reconsider their planned action, and continue their dialogue with us over the proposed accumulation of minor motoring convictions criterion of the suitability policy in order to achieve a positive outcome for all parties.”

Drivers for LPHDO gathered at Burley Road car park to protest and have vowed that action will continue until their concerns are heard.

"It will continue until they sit down and actually listen to us." Zahir said "We have been in dialogue and are starting to sound like a broken record now. Three years later and unfortunately nothing's been done. This council has let us down."


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