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 Post subject: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:54 pm 
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If a venue offers transport for guests (to a hotel or say a wedding venue) and no money changes hands in respect of the journey is it classed as H&R?

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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:23 am 
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I think this one has been covered many times before in various guises and the answer has always been yes it is H&R.

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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:39 am 
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One I always remember (but can't find it now) is a report about an airport transfer service, and a vehicle had broken down, so the driver used a replacement, but it wasn't plated.

He claimed that because he hadn't charged the passengers then that meant it didn't need licensing. However, because it was offered as part of his business generally then it didn't matter that it was offered FOC.

I think the phrase is 'with a view to profit', or similar. Ditto a free 'taxi' from a pub, or likewise.


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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:38 pm 
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Pecuniary gain

Means for receipt of, or in anticipation of receipt of, anything of value, whether monetary or in goods or services. Thus, offenses committed for pecuniary gain include both monetary and barter transactions. Similarly, activities designed to increase gross revenue are considered to be committed for pecuniary gain.

It's definitely H&R no matter how they dress it up.


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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:08 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
If a venue offers transport for guests (to a hotel or say a wedding venue) and no money changes hands in respect of the journey is it classed as H&R?

Yes.

A court would ask if that 'free' service was available to any old mush that turned up, if the answer was that they only offer that service to venue punters, then it would be deemed hire and reward.

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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:07 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
If a venue offers transport for guests (to a hotel or say a wedding venue) and no money changes hands in respect of the journey is it classed as H&R?

Yes.

A court would ask if that 'free' service was available to any old mush that turned up, if the answer was that they only offer that service to venue punters, then it would be deemed hire and reward.


No different to fee paying school running a 17 seater collecting pupil from a train station to school?

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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:13 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
Sussex wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
If a venue offers transport for guests (to a hotel or say a wedding venue) and no money changes hands in respect of the journey is it classed as H&R?

Yes.

A court would ask if that 'free' service was available to any old mush that turned up, if the answer was that they only offer that service to venue punters, then it would be deemed hire and reward.


No different to fee paying school running a 17 seater collecting pupil from a train station to school?
17 seaters do not come under local licensing though.

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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:49 am 
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grandad wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
Sussex wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
If a venue offers transport for guests (to a hotel or say a wedding venue) and no money changes hands in respect of the journey is it classed as H&R?

Yes.

A court would ask if that 'free' service was available to any old mush that turned up, if the answer was that they only offer that service to venue punters, then it would be deemed hire and reward.


No different to fee paying school running a 17 seater collecting pupil from a train station to school?
17 seaters do not come under local licensing though.


so a hotel could run a +8 (passenger) vehicle without plate or O-licence/DPC,etv?

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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:03 am 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
grandad wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
Sussex wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
If a venue offers transport for guests (to a hotel or say a wedding venue) and no money changes hands in respect of the journey is it classed as H&R?

Yes.

A court would ask if that 'free' service was available to any old mush that turned up, if the answer was that they only offer that service to venue punters, then it would be deemed hire and reward.


No different to fee paying school running a 17 seater collecting pupil from a train station to school?
17 seaters do not come under local licensing though.


so a hotel could run a +8 (passenger) vehicle without plate or O-licence/DPC,etv?

You said a school and not a hotel. They are treated differently.

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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:12 pm 
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So fee paying school can run a vehicle for pupils but a hotel couldnt?

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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:58 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
So fee paying school can run a vehicle for pupils but a hotel couldnt?

Yes, that is allowed 100%.

In the past I have queried schools taking the kids to the airports in their minibusses, but it's entirely legal.

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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:51 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
So fee paying school can run a vehicle for pupils but a hotel couldnt?

Why would a hotel want to run a vehicle for pupils?

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To support my charity text MAYORWALK to 70085 to donate £5


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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:19 pm 
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grandad wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
So fee paying school can run a vehicle for pupils but a hotel couldnt?

Why would a hotel want to run a vehicle for pupils?


I meant a school can run a vehicle without any licensing (for pupils) but a hotel cannot (for guests)

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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:32 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
grandad wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
So fee paying school can run a vehicle for pupils but a hotel couldnt?

Why would a hotel want to run a vehicle for pupils?


I meant a school can run a vehicle without any licensing (for pupils) but a hotel cannot (for guests)

I suppose the view taken, in respect of the school, is that there is no profit gained, either direct or indirect. Whereas in the hotel a definite profit is gained, albeit indirect.

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 Post subject: Re: Courtesy vehicles...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:08 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I suppose the view taken, in respect of the school, is that there is no profit gained, either direct or indirect. Whereas in the hotel a definite profit is gained, albeit indirect.


The school i had for 4 years was fee paying £16,000 per school year per pupil not a state or faith school so there was a cash return off pupils, they ran a 17 seater into town to meet pupils coming into town

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