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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:56 pm 
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You two were made for each other.

I can see you both at breakfast, 'How many slices of thesaurus would you like dear?'

'Hang on darling, i'm just polishing of the dictionary'

'Is that the Greek one with the hyroglyphics?'

'No, I had that for supper.'

'turn up the radio, John Humphrys is just about to begin'

'Oh, Ok dear, is JD coming round for elevenses today?'

'No, he's going to GBC and Ollies today, helping them decide on a colour scheme for the skullery'

:wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:09 pm 
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I'm a great fan of the drivers choice policy.

And not so much of a fan of the taxi quotas policy.

So there. 8-[

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:59 pm 
Sussex wrote:
I'm a great fan of the drivers choice policy.

And not so much of a fan of the taxi quotas policy.

So there. 8-[

wot about if the drivers choose quotas? :?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:36 pm 
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jimbo wrote:
Even though the treasury uses their sophisticated economic model for calculating the effects of tax changes on revenues, including a number of economic variables such as prices,earnings and consumers' expenditure, their calculations do not make any allowance for changes in the taxpayers' behaviour. The calculations are therefore, essentially "static" in nature. This is clearly a major shortcoming and one the treasury should be urgently addressing- not least of all because their forcasting record for tax revenues and, hence, borrowing over the past five to six years has been abysmal despite a reasonable, though far from perfect,record on forcasting the economy as a whole. In his 2001 budget, the chancellor forecast total borrowing of £12 billion for the six financial years 2000-01 to 2005-06. Alas, the total borrowing over this period will turn out to be £120 billion, despite an extra £8 billion of NIC's revenue each year since 2003-04, with the discrepancy overwhelmingly reflecting deficient revenue. Tax revenues have dramatically undershot. This is poor forecasting on a heroic scale. Doubtless, there are several reasons for the poor forecasts. But surely, one reason is the treasury's failure to recognise the ways in which people and businesses react to tax changes.


I'm surprised that that the Treasury's economic modelling is as unsophisticated as you outline.

But isn't the underestimated budget deficit more to do with lower than forecast economic growth rather than changes in taxpayers' behaviour per se?


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My second fallacy is the "lump public services fallacy". This is based on the idea that there isarelationship between public spending and public services output. Spend the money, which the Chancellor will insist on calling "investment", and, hey presto, there will be a "lump" of "high quality" services. This flawed idea has undoubtedly been behind the Chancellor's monumental increase in public spending since 2000-01 in order to provide the nation with "world-class" services. Moreover under this mechanistic thinking, if public spending is cut by 5%, then services will be cut by 5%. The notion that better public services, following judicious reforms, can be delivered with less money, is alien. But it is now quite clear that the Chancellor's big-spending gamble is fundamentally flawed. Public sector productivity is falling, public sector waste is growing and the public services remain unsatisfactory. The taxpayersalliance recently estimated that the Government wastes £82 billion annually of hhardworing taxpayers money. The Government has to date, successfully spun the line that lower tax rates inevitably lead to lower tax revenues which, in turn, mean slower public spending growth and, therefore, worse public services. This is nonsense.Lower tax rates will stimulate revenues which, given sensible reforms, could finance much needed improvements in the public services


Absolutely - it certainly seems that the taxpayers' largesse has to an extent been frittered away in the form of higher wages and lowere productivity.

But surely you would agree, the above notwithstanding, that there have been net gains in terms of public sector output despite the shortcomings outlined above?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:37 pm 
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Shouldn't we have a seperate econometrics and economic modelling thread? :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:05 am 
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TDO wrote:
Shouldn't we have a seperate econometrics and economic modelling thread? :lol:
IF JIMBO IS A TAXI DRIVER ON 5 POUND AN HOUR , I WILL EAT MY HAT .I THINK SOME ONES TAKING THE P......S STREETCARS .


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:21 pm 
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TDO wrote:
jimbo wrote:
Yes, but the PH drivers who have a moderate understanding of english comprehension tell me they are struggling, and some are really struggling. After nearly ten years of labour we are tailspinning into reccession, unemployment up, diesel up, gas up, electric up, council tax up, and punters out, down, down, down.


Well whatever way the microeconomics of the trade is regulated, it's certainly impossible to inlfuence the macro side :?


"Impossible to influence the macro side?". You really ought to tell that to Gordon Brown, Ayn Rand, and Ruth Lea.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:49 pm 
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Yes Jimbo, but what I clearly meant was from the perspective of trade regulation - indeed, the other night I said:

I'm a bit confused here Jimbo - I said it was impossible to influence the macro side of the economy (from the taxi regulation perspective, at least), then you say I'm being over-simplistic, then you make a statement that seems to agree with what I said? (Italics added)

You're not really suggesting that I don't know about Keynesian demand management, fiscal and monetary policy, supply-side economics etc.

Really!! [-X :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:44 am 
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TDO wrote:
Yes Jimbo, but what I clearly meant was from the perspective of trade regulation - indeed, the other night I said:

I'm a bit confused here Jimbo - I said it was impossible to influence the macro side of the economy (from the taxi regulation perspective, at least), then you say I'm being over-simplistic, then you make a statement that seems to agree with what I said? (Italics added)

You're not really suggesting that I don't know about Keynesian demand management, fiscal and monetary policy, supply-side economics etc.

Really!! [-X :lol:


Ah! You mention Lady Thatcher's favourite economist, well done! Of course, Ayn Rand was far to right wing, even for Margeret, my favourite Lincolnshire lass!.

I never suggest anything, and I never suggested the Treasury's economic model was unsophisticated. Sophisticated, was the word I used.You added the "un" but not to worry, eh?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:54 pm 
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jimbo wrote:
Ah! You mention Lady Thatcher's favourite economist, well done! Of course, Ayn Rand was far to right wing, even for Margeret, my favourite Lincolnshire lass!.



So what was their positions on taxi quotas then Jimbo?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:03 pm 
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jimbo wrote:
I never suggest anything, and I never suggested the Treasury's economic model was unsophisticated. Sophisticated, was the word I used.You added the "un" but not to worry, eh?


So, regarding the Treasury's model you said:

- It contained a 'major shortcoming' that should be addressed "with urgency".

- Because of this recent forecasting has been "abysmal" and that it was "poor forecasting on a heroic scale".

- And this was because of the Treasury's "failure" to recognise how taxpayers react to tax changes.

But now you criticise me for calling the Treasury's model unsophisticated #-o

So wasn't it you who shouldn't have used the word "sophisticated" to describe the model in the first place if you think it's not up to the job? :-s

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:14 pm 
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TDO wrote:
jimbo wrote:
Ah! You mention Lady Thatcher's favourite economist, well done! Of course, Ayn Rand was far to right wing, even for Margeret, my favourite Lincolnshire lass!.



So what was their positions on taxi quotas then Jimbo?


I somehow doubt that either were aware that taxis existed.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:42 pm 
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TDO wrote:
jimbo wrote:
I never suggest anything, and I never suggested the Treasury's economic model was unsophisticated. Sophisticated, was the word I used.You added the "un" but not to worry, eh?


So, regarding the Treasury's model you said:

- It contained a 'major shortcoming' that should be addressed "with urgency".

- Because of this recent forecasting has been "abysmal" and that it was "poor forecasting on a heroic scale".

- And this was because of the Treasury's "failure" to recognise how taxpayers react to tax changes.

But now you criticise me for calling the Treasury's model unsophisticated #-o

So wasn't it you who shouldn't have used the word "sophisticated" to describe the model in the first place if you think it's not up to the job? :-s


You really ought to visit the London School of economics.They used to have, and probably still have, a sand model! It was (is) made of wood and glass, and works very well indeed. Many, when I was there, thought better than computer models. All I can add to my essay for your benefit, is rubbish in, rubbish out. wysiwyg. The model is sophisticated. The analysis is not. There's the rub.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:54 pm 
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jimbo wrote:
TDO wrote:
jimbo wrote:
Ah! You mention Lady Thatcher's favourite economist, well done! Of course, Ayn Rand was far to right wing, even for Margeret, my favourite Lincolnshire lass!.



So what was their positions on taxi quotas then Jimbo?


I somehow doubt that either were aware that taxis existed.


Err, wasn't it the Thatcher Govt that passed the "deregulatory" Transport Act in 1985.

And that complete deregulation of numbers was only thwarted at the last minute by an amendment introduced in the House of Lords by the NTA's tame peer?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:57 pm 
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jimbo wrote:
You really ought to visit the London School of economics.They used to have, and probably still have, a sand model! It was (is) made of wood and glass, and works very well indeed. Many, when I was there, thought better than computer models


Yes, I think I've seen a picture of that one, or a similar model.

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All I can add to my essay for your benefit, is rubbish in, rubbish out. wysiwyg. The model is sophisticated. The analysis is not. There's the rub.


So the analysis is 'unsophisticated' then :lol:

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