Taxi Driver Online

I wondered whether this had been shelved

After the first few weeks of chatter and stuff it all seemed to go very quiet.

But, of course, with Uber things are often a very slow and long burn

Although the delay in processing and deciding the application may be down to the council.

Presumably they'll rubber-stamp it, though. Most of the stuff cited in opposition here is the usual irrelevant considerations stuff.

Not sure why the council needs a special meeting, though. And not sure if that's a good or bad sign...

And, of course, no doubt the vast majority of the objections are using the EFTA template.

And EFTA has gone very quiet as well - don't think they've posted anything on their website for nearly six months now

I suspect that's down to a lack of interest from the trade, and the pair running EFTA hitting their heads against a brick wall with the council


More than 400 objections received to Uber’s Fife booking office bid

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/fi ... bjections/

The Uber licence application will be considered by councillors at a special meeting next week.

An Uber application to open a Fife booking office has attracted a deluge of opposition.

More than 400 people have objected to Uber Scot Limited’s bid for a 24/7 licence to operate from Rosyth Business Centre.

Many of those are from existing taxi operators and drivers.

https://wpcluster.dctdigital.com/wp-con ... 40x502.jpg

They have raised significant public safety concerns related to Uber’s business model.

In particular, they highlight issues over driver verification and oversight.

They also fear the impact any approval will have on their own businesses.

The application and objections will be heard by Fife Council’s regulation and licensing committee on Tuesday.

A special meeting has been convened solely to consider the Uber plan.

The company says there is strong demand for the service in Fife.

And they offer a “safe, affordable and easy option”.

Public safety concerns over Uber Fife licence bid

Despite Uber’s assurances, the taxi operators indicate their objections are based on “concerns relating to fairness, public safety and consistency of standards”.

They say: “Taxi operators and drivers in Fife have to adhere to strict conditions to protect public safety and ensure proper regulation of the trade.”

And they ask whether all drivers operating through the Uber office will be subjected to the same police checks and safeguarding requirements.

They continue: “Will vehicles be subjected to identical testing?

“And will the council consider the economic impact on existing licensed taxi operators?”

The operators also state: “The proposed operation appears to rely primarily on a remote, app-based dispatch system with limited evidence of genuine local management and oversight.

“It is unclear whether there will be meaningful on-site supervision in Fife.

“This raises legitimate questions about suitability and public safety.”

‘Uber is easy option’

Uber has been operating in Edinburgh and Glasgow since 2015, and in Aberdeen since October 2024.

It also gained a licence to operate in Dundee, but it is understood the firm is still not operating there.

According to the Uber website, it also currently offers taxi services to Dunfermline.

An Uber spokesperson previously told The Courier: “We see strong demand for Uber in Fife and hope to offer people a safe, affordable and easy option to get where they need to go.

“If our application is granted, our services will offer new earning opportunities for local drivers.

“On Uber, all drivers have access to industry-leading worker rights such as holiday pay and a pension, as well as formal representation through GMB Union.”

Totally irrelevant - if they did consider that, they'd leave themselves wide open to legal challenge

As long as they only use cars plated in the Kirkcaldy, West Fife (Dunfermline), Glenrothes and Levenmouth zones, and not those pesky ones in the East (St Andrews/Cupar) zone, then they'll at least be guaranteed 99/100% pass rates in the annual inspections

I wonder what conditions existing drivers in Fife adhere to that will not apply to any Uber driver in Fife?

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IDFIMH

Well this is interesting - a council official has made an 'objection' (although, technically speaking, this says he hasn't formally objected) based on the knock-on impact Uber could have on the availability of the legacy trade for council contracts

Although I suppose the contrary argument might be that if in fact Uber eats into the more mainstream 'taxi' work then that would leave more legacy cars available for school and social work contracts etc.

Anyway, in terms of the licensing application, either way I'm pretty sure that kind of stuff is considered an irrelevant consideration, and would expose the council to legal challenge if the committee took cognisance of it and rejected the application.


Uber Rosyth office bid attracts 431 objections

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/2 ... bjections/

A BID for an Uber office in Rosyth is to come before councillors next week after attracting more than 400 objections.

Uber Scot Limited have applied for a booking office licence for premises at the Rosyth Business Centre on the Cromarty Campus.

The consent is required for premises which take bookings for four more taxis or private hire vehicles.

A total of 431 representations and objections have been received during the consultation period

Taxi operators, drivers and associations from across Fife have raised concerns that the arrival of Uber could damage existing taxi firms and drivers already facing difficult trading conditions.

The East Fife Taxi Association submitted a detailed objection arguing the committee should consider issues around public safety, management arrangements, suitability of the premises and whether the company is a “fit and proper” licence holder.

It added: “There is a real question as to whether the booking office would in practice be operated locally, or whether it is effectively a remote dispatch hub controlled elsewhere, with nominal premises within Fife.”

A representation from Fife Council’s Procurement Category Manager, Gary Moyes, for the Council’s transport contracts stopped short of making a formal objection but expressed concerns that Uber could affect the viability of existing taxi operators.

“I believe committee should be aware of the potential impact of Uber entering the Fife marketplace, in terms of a knock-on effect on Fife Council contract work for School and Social Work journeys,” he stated.

“On the one hand, it can be argued that anyone is free to apply for a booking office licence and everyone else just has to accept the new competition as part of a free market.

“However, there is no doubt that the arrival of Uber in any area is seen as a major disruptor.

“This is not necessarily a bad thing as it has increased competition and choice for passengers.

“However, either by generating new drivers or poaching existing taxi/PHC drivers and their vehicles, this has an impact on existing operators who are chasing a finite number of customers and journey bookings.

“If Uber manages to pull such commercial taxi and PHC business away from existing operators, this is likely to impact their income, which, in turn, could force them to downsize. Others may find the competition is unsustainable.

“A smaller pool of operators, vehicles and drivers may have an impact on the Council’s ability to secure school taxi journeys (£6M per year) and social work journeys (£1.5M per year). There is a worry that contract prices could increase as a result.”

Members of Fife Council’s Regulations and Licensing Committee will consider the application at a special meeting to take place on Tuesday.

I wonder if said numpty official might have considered that those contract drivers may also work with Uber.

They are not mutually exclusive.

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IDFIMH

I hadn't thought of that particular angle, Sussex

But, again, while that may be a thing in some locations, I don't think there's so many PHVs around Fife who don't have a meter fitted and might be interested in working for Uber alongside their own stuff.

And, again, particularly in St Andrews we're almost all HCs here, and the offices with a few PHVs running with them certainly won't be entertaining the possibility of those cars also working with Uber

But throughout Fife there's certainly no huge standalone/distinct private hire sectors like those in the bigger cities.

So, like Aberdeen and Dundee, where the trade is more of a hybrid HC/PH thing rather than the binary seen most obviously in London, Fife may be a more difficult nut for Uber to crack.

Which in turn undermines the council official's argument a bit.

On the other hand - and unlike in Aberdeen - it couldn't be much easier to get a badge here (and they don't even bother issuing PH badges, because it's no more difficult to get an HC badge, which then covers both cars under both codes). So to that extent it might be a bit easier for Uber to recruit drivers here, particularly new ones attracted by the Uber hype

But what may be pivotal in Fife is how Uber intend to deal with the dominance of HCs here - I'd guess a lot of HC drivers (particularly the independents and small scale fleets) might be interested in trying Uber. But, of course, they won't want to give up their meter because they'll still want to work the ranks, and want to retain that option if it doesn't work out with Uber.

So I'm not sure if Uber in the UK use HCs, or at least in-area HCs where the meter has to be used.

And, of course, in theory at least there would be nothing to stop Uber in Fife simply using metered cars and a more conventional pricing model as opposed to surge-pricing etc (which I think they do in Northern Ireland, where I think the PH equivalent there all have meters fitted, but of course that's a different jurisdiction to the one dominant in both England and Scotland).

Anyway, presumably all will become clear fairly soon...

Or at least a wee bit clearer - I mean it must be the thick end of a decade since Uber first applied in Aberdeen, and it's still all a bit up in the air there

Uber has some, not sure how many, London black cabs on their system.

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IDFIMH

I think that's the way they will start.

One thing the Uber system does well is letting folks book cars while on the train, so when the train pulls in, the car is waiting.

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IDFIMH

Oh, aye, I keep forgetting about the black cabs in London

On the other hand, as I've said before, it's marketed as a totally different product via the app as compared to the more mainstream Uber stuff, so the pricing complications wouldn't apply.

But the London HC scenario is certainly an interesting precedent as regards how Uber might roll out their app in Fife

I agree, but Uber will adapt to whatever gets them off the starting line.

If there are virtually no PH, and the hackneys have to have meters, then Uber will base their rates on hackney rates and/or have no local surging.

At least until they can get new drivers via some kind of Uber school.

It's worth pointing out here that Uber has recently exited Uganda and Kenya because they were paying drivers more than they were charging. So Uber will subsidise for a while, maybe a year or two.

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IDFIMH

For what it's worth, this is tomorrow's agenda paper here, complete with the consultation responses etc. Most of which are just signatories to the main template one organised by EFTA

(And, as per the EFTA submission, the agenda paper includes all the legislation covering umpteen pages )

https://www.fife.gov.uk/_services/share ... emId=85031

And no objection from the Police Scotland, surprise, surprise...

There are also several other individual responses. Which look superficially compelling, but in reality it's just the usual tall poppy kind of stuff. Like this, for example:


Er, isn't that what happens already?

Although there's not really the same private hire sectors seen in the big cities, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of PHVs already operating alongside the HCs in Fife, although maybe not so many in our East zone, and that's maybe because historically East was late to the capping party, so to that extent private hire numbers have never taken off to the degree they have in the other zones centred around the bigger town and urban areas.

And the irony of a capped HC sector complaining about unfair competition and a two-tier system. I though it was supposed to be the PH sector making that argument

Er, it's Uber

And even if they did allow walk-up work, I suspect they might go days without getting any in premises like that in such a location.

There usually is anyway

I thought circuits could take on council contracts and then use individual owner/drivers to fulfill them?

How does it work down south? Can a private hire or HC circuit take on school contracts then farm them out to individual badge/plate holders?

I mean, if in theory Uber down south wanted to take on council contracts, could they do so and use individual drivers to do the work?