captain cab wrote:
However, there does seem to be evidence that these vehicles place the driver and passenger in the highway when loading wheelchairs. In the view of some that is more of a risk than side loading.
Yes I understand your concern but I believe it is a concern that councillors have to reconcile and that we Taxi drivers should not concern ourselves with what others wish to drive. Always considering of course that it is a recognised motor vehicle that conforms to the standards laid down by the licensing authority. After all if councillors want us to do their job for them then we don't really need councillors do we? If Taxi organisation want to dictate what drivers can and cannot drive then they should become councillors. I am a firm believer that Taxi organisations should represent Taxi drivers and let councillors represent the public.
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The rear loaders need space behind to load wheelchairs, as you will be more than aware, rank space is not exactly in abundance in many areas.
Yes I understand that problem but that situation might only arise once in a blue moon?
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There is also the question of how the passenger escapes the vehicle in the event of a rear end shunt.
Well this is an issue that councils have to reconcile when deciding whether to license these vehicles. It should not concern you or I because you or I probably wouldn't drive one of these vehicles? Do we as Taxi drivers have the right to tell others they cannot drive rear loading WAV's just because we wouldn't drive one ourselves?
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On top of all this you will be aware that the spinal injuries people have voiced their concerns over the vehicle.
Again, I do not believe it is up to Taxi drivers to tell others what to drive. Councillors are quite capable of reasoning the pros and cons for themselves if they aren't then they are in the wrong job.
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I find your take on this very strange. I can recall associations in Manchester, Liverpool, and Birmingham effectively splitting the old NFTA because they thought everywhere should have purpose built vehicles, whereas the policy on the NFTA was freedom of choice.
Yes I know and to be quite honest, the comments at that particular time have not changed much to this day because many still believe that people who drive saloon vehicles are not real Taxi drivers? Those are not my sentiments but no doubt you will have heard that stated many times in the past.
That was the opinion of the TOA at the time and as I said it still applies in many cases. However my stand has always been choice and I'm afraid that will always be the case.
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Incidentally the policy of the NTA is still freedom of choice, except in the case of rear loaders.
Well I am gratified to hear that you support freedom of choice as will probably the majority of people who subscribe to this site. However I don't believe that Taxi drivers should be advising councillors what vehicles not to license, especially when we have Rickshaws and Tuk Tuks running around in various guises?
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When I mentioned LTI setting the standards, I did of course mean working to the standard, the standard set by the PCO.
Ok that’s understandable because we are talking about conditions rather than the vehicle. I don't believe the 25ft turning circle is a necessary condition, it might be advantageous but it certainly isn't a necessity. I'm sure supporters of the turning circle in London will present a different picture.
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One way of looking at it is that LTI have worked to the criteria set, whereas others wish to effectively lower the standards of conditions to suit their own product.
If you have driven LTI vehicles as long as I have you might not use the words "standards" and "LTI" in the same sentence? In my opinion the standard of previous LTI vehicles has been decidedly substandard and basic. They have never been of the same standard associated with a saloon type vehicle of similar price. The only reason they commanded their exorbitant price tag is by virtue of councillors and the PCO in insisting on an unreasonable turning circle?
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If you spin this around, perhaps we should go down the road of watering down standards of drivers, because knowledge tests, CRB's and medicals are too difficult?
You still haven't defined what standards an LTI vehicle has that others don't have? The turning circle is not a standard, every vehicle has a turning circle it just happens that setting the requirement at 25ft excludes every manufacturer bar two? And just look at the poor quality of these vehicles over the years compared to other similarly priced vehicles?
Bringing driver standards into the equation only clouds the water and diverts attention from the real issue.
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It’s rather strange that the trade cites standards when it comes to East Europeans, but are less keen on seeing standards imposed on vehicles!
You are equating standards with conditions, we could have a condition that states all vehicles shall be blue, thats hardly a standard on the other hand we could have a condition that states all vehicles should have ABS now that certainly is a standard and one bourne out of safety and I might add, one which LTI could not comply with until this month? We could have another safety standard which stiipulates airbags for all vehicles but the reason we dont have that is because LTI can't comply. The Turning circle is not a safety standard or a neccesity and it would seem to me your case for standards is based solely on this one condition?
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I always presumed you came from Manchester, I haven’t heard of either you or your colleagues approaching the council in Manchester to change the vehicle criteria there.
Just because you haven't heard does not mean that such an event has not taken place?
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Are you therefore not the same as the NTA and Mr. Lambert, as you are seemingly crying out for freedom of choice, but are seemingly settled with your own limited choice of vehicles.
As I stated, you are not aware of what might have taken place, therefore you can be forgiven for not knowing what the situation is in Manchester? The current situation is that the council, the TODA, GMBU, T&G are all in favour of retaining the turning circle. Their reasoning is that to allow other vehicles to be licensed would dilute the recognisable feature of a Manchester Taxi, which would have the effect of making all vehicles both Private hire and Hackneys indistinguishable?
That is the fear factor of the Manchester Taxi trade bodies and the council. So the presumption is, that no other vehicle manufacturer is ever likely to produce a vehicle with a 25ft turning circle which could have the effect of sustaining that position for a long time to come?
Regards
JD
Yes I understand your concern but I believe it is a concern that councillors have to reconcile and that we Taxi drivers should not concern ourselves with what others wish to drive. Always considering of course that it is a recognised motor vehicle that conforms to the standards laid down by the licensing authority. After all if councillors want us to do their job for them then we don't really need councillors do we? If Taxi organisation want to dictate what drivers can and cannot drive then they should become councillors. I am a firm believer that Taxi organisations should represent Taxi drivers and let councillors represent the public.
I think the membership of the association quite rightly made their concerns known.
If anything what is needed is clear guidance from the DFT.
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The rear loaders need space behind to load wheelchairs, as you will be more than aware, rank space is not exactly in abundance in many areas.
Yes I understand that problem but that situation might only arise once in a blue moon?
But couldn't you also state that carrying any wheelchair bound passengers will happen once in a blue moon? (for a taxi purely operating from taxi ranks?)
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There is also the question of how the passenger escapes the vehicle in the event of a rear end shunt.
Well this is an issue that councils have to reconcile when deciding whether to license these vehicles. It should not concern you or I because you or I probably wouldn't drive one of these vehicles? Do we as Taxi drivers have the right to tell others they cannot drive rear loading WAV's just because we wouldn't drive one ourselves?
Unfortunately if and when a person is killed the headlines will be 'unsafe taxi' 'taxi death crash' which in effect affects us all.
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On top of all this you will be aware that the spinal injuries people have voiced their concerns over the vehicle.
Again, I do not believe it is up to Taxi drivers to tell others what to drive. Councillors are quite capable of reasoning the pros and cons for themselves if they aren't then they are in the wrong job.
Are these the same councillors who are often swayed by inaccurate biased reports from Licensing Officers?
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Are you therefore not the same as the NTA and Mr. Lambert, as you are seemingly crying out for freedom of choice, but are seemingly settled with your own limited choice of vehicles.
As I stated, you are not aware of what might have taken place, therefore you can be forgiven for not knowing what the situation is in Manchester? The current situation is that the council, the TODA, GMBU, T&G are all in favour of retaining the turning circle. Their reasoning is that to allow other vehicles to be licensed would dilute the recognisable feature of a Manchester Taxi, which would have the effect of making all vehicles both Private hire and Hackneys indistinguishable?
That is the fear factor of the Manchester Taxi trade bodies and the council. So the presumption is, that no other vehicle manufacturer is ever likely to produce a vehicle with a 25ft turning circle which could have the effect of sustaining that position for a long time to come?
I believe at least one Manchester Private Hire firm has Hackney Carriages licensed in Trafford (purpose built vehicles) operating for the most part in Manchester (admittedly another argument but would it make a tremendous difference if those vehicles were of a differing type and design?)
But going back to the point, if the licensed trade in Peterborough wants a clear distinction between Hackney Carriages and Private Hire down there, how can you argue against it when it seems the same for the trade in Manchester?
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