Taxi Driver Online

I suppose Tom that this is in respect of the letter the NTA sent out to all licensing authorities advising them not to license rear loading wavs and especially the Doblo.

LTI are a paying corporate member of the NTA, as far as I know and Mr Casey is fond of using their notepaper but I wouldn't considered that a perk.

If my memory serves me well the Loughborough report said rear loading vehicles are just as safe as side loading vehicles so although the NTA were expressing a personal opinion they should have really kept their nose out of "vehicle choice" because it has nothing whatsoever to do with them.

Organisations that represent a minute minority of owners such as the NTA should keep their opinions to those they represent. If NTA members don't want to drive rear loading vehicles then no one is going to force them to do otherwise.

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

I had forgotten Mr Casey was NTA. Perhaps I should have asked in the 'other place'.

JD you mention Loughborough. Did they do a study? Can I find it somewhere?

_________________
A member of the Hire or Reward Industry

Dear Tom Thumb, I wish you a Happy New Year and prosperity with your business.

I happen to think that the TX series of taxis in a lot of ways are a first class vehicle for drivers, particularly regarding driver protection from assaults and the fact that in a serious accident both driver and passengers more often than not emerge alive.

I was merely pointing out that your assumption that the rear doors on a TX inevitably jammed after being involved in a rear end shunt was incorrect. Even so, with nearly every other vehicle on the road, it would happen.

The issue with rear loading vehicles and councils is a strange one at the best of times. You might have a senior licencing officer making decisions as to what vehicle is acceptable or not, but what qualification or experience do these officers actually have? Let's face it, two weeks before, that officer might have been in charge of another council department. (e.g. chief rat catcher!)

There are a lot of issues that need to be considered as to the policy of which vehicle is suitable. Issues such as ranks, and whether it is feasible or not to load a passenger from the road or kerb. Which is safer for the driver and passenger?

Then there is the issue of the wheelchairs themselves. The manufacturers have stated that wheelchairs should not be secured into vehicles and will not be held responsible for any injuries sustained.

As for loading a wheelchair passenger into a TX1, the instructions are quite clear. The passenger and wheelchair are placed with their back to the driver's partition.. The restraining straps are then attached to the wheelchair, and then the extended safety belt is fastened around the passenger.

I am sure that there are uses for small rear loading vehicles, but whether they should be licenced as a taxi is another matter. There is always the option to licence as private hire, especially if the work was door to door.

The NTA as an association has merely expressed the opinion of the majority of its members, which it has every right to do. Last year I was at a meeting were the same concerns were expressed by the T & G.

Life goes on and so will the debate.

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

Mr T, thanks for the reply.

I note you say the instructions are quite clear but you didn't say that is how you do it.

When I contemplated adding WAV to my fleet I brought in several types of vehicle to trial with my local access group.

When trying to load from the side and rotate the wheelchair I found it almost impossible and I am 20 years younger than my average employee.

Other drivers gave up. The salesman from the LTI company said 'oh just push them in and leave them sideways on, that how most people do it'.

I have since seen six wheelchair users travelling in TX4s and all have been stowed incorrectly (sideways on).

Because I employ drivers I have to do a risk assessment before asking them to do something and I could under no circumstances ask them to load a typical wheelchair user (20 stone plus) in a side loading vehicle.

I would have half of them off sick with bad backs for months.

_________________
A member of the Hire or Reward Industry

How shocking is that?

When people are more interested in selling than safety, methinks we are all f***ed.

_________________
IDFIMH

Yes they did a study and the link was posted on TDO. If my memory serves me well it was a study backed by the DfT. I'll try and dig it out but the bottom line is this, Taxi organisations should keep their noses out of driver choice because the NTA are not the only organisation that advocate no rear loading vehicles the T & G are strongly in favour of only licensing LTI vehicles or vehicles that comply with the LTI turning circle condition.

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

The first report they did was this one but they also did another report with lots of nice pictures of wavs and offered a telling observation that rear loading vehicles are as safe as every other type of wav taxi. There is a telling statistic in the report offered below that states no more than 5% of the wheelchair bound passengers tested in LTI vehicles, actually sat in the corrrect lawfull position facing backwards, the other 95% sat sideways on.

https://dspace.lboro.ac.uk/dspace/bitst ... AR2472.pdf

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

From memory the matter went before the membership back in 2005, also from memory I seem to recollect I voiced my concerns against it.

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

According to the LTI mouthpiece Taxiwise.

NTA members endorsed a resolution to support the early day motion put down by MP Andrew Rossindale, calling for rear-loaders not to be licensed as Hackney carriages because of the safety issues.

In the letter, Norman Deegan, chair of the NTA, said members were concerned that previous letters to local authorities on this “safety critical issue” had been ignored.
____________________

I think I posted that letter on TDO but in my opinion the NTA suffers from dillusions of grandeur Just because it saw fit to put the word "National" in its title.

Cab drivers in this country don't want or need a handful of misfits advising councils what should or shouldn't be licensed. I get the impression that just because some cab drivers join an association they think they have the right to dictate what the majority of the cab trade should do? When Loughborough came out with their research I didn't see the NTA mob hold their hands up and apologise for their mistake. Perhaps Mr Deegan and the couple of thousand NTA members might care to reflect on their position in life and stop interfering in the affairs of the majority of the taxi trade.

The majority of the Taxi trade want choice to reign supreme but not the type of choice advocated by the NTA or the T & G.

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

More evidence that democracy is a pile of poo in relation to the taxi/PH trade.

When less than 5% of the trade have brains, why should the clueless 95% lead the way?

_________________
IDFIMH

In the real world, thats what most drivers do and that's what most wheelchair users want though.

I think we are too obsessed with safety these days.

_________________
There's no excuse for animal abuse. If you ain't vegan you are an animal abuser.

One has to wonder then why a council would license, and in some cases insist on, a vehicle that allows that.

Cos it is dangerous.

_________________
IDFIMH

Oh and did I mention ramps gradients?

All side loading vehicles on the market seem to have a gradient double that described as safe by European Conference of Ministers of transport.

Thanks JD for the info and too Captain for the reply.

95 % of passengers are loaded against the instructions in 100% of wheelchairs not approve safe for travel in.

_________________
A member of the Hire or Reward Industry

This report arranged by Mr Skull and Mr Taylor puts a little bit more meat on that particular bone.

http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=3017

_________________
IDFIMH

If the wheelchair is loaded through the side door would this be any better if the collission was heavy enought the side doors may not be operable ?