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 Post subject: Re: Gladen court case
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:32 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
As the high court has already made judgment on this case, regarding being licenced in one area and working in another, could the same apply in Scotland :?: :?: or are our laws different in this case


Errm am I being thick but the judge in Gladen didnt say that did he?

CC


You just couldn't resist it could you :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Gladen court case
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:34 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
As the high court has already made judgment on this case, regarding being licenced in one area and working in another, could the same apply in Scotland :?: :?: or are our laws different in this case


Errm am I being thick but the judge in Gladen didnt say that did he?

CC


Yes and YES :D


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 Post subject: Re: Gladen court case
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:37 pm 
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skippy41 wrote:
captain cab wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
As the high court has already made judgment on this case, regarding being licenced in one area and working in another, could the same apply in Scotland :?: :?: or are our laws different in this case


Errm am I being thick but the judge in Gladen didnt say that did he?

CC


Yes and YES :D


Okay skip where abouts? :shock:

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
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 Post subject: Re: Gladen court case
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:38 pm 
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MR T wrote:
captain cab wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
As the high court has already made judgment on this case, regarding being licenced in one area and working in another, could the same apply in Scotland :?: :?: or are our laws different in this case


Errm am I being thick but the judge in Gladen didnt say that did he?

CC


You just couldn't resist it could you :lol: :lol:


I could of....but I wouldnt have slept :wink:

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:45 pm 
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© Crown Copyright with acknowledgement to
www.bailii.org


CO/1932/2004
Neutral Citation Number [2004] EWHC 2500 (Admin)
IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE
QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION
DIVISIONAL COURT

Royal Courts of Justice
Strand
London WC2

Thursday, 28 October 2004

B E F O R E:

MR JUSTICE COLLINS

MR JUSTICE SILBER

BRENTWOOD BOROUGH COUNCIL
(CLAIMANT)

-v-

ANDREW ERNEST GLADEN
(DEFENDANT)

Computer-Aided Transcript of the Stenograph Notes of
Smith Bernal Wordwave Limited
190 Fleet Street London EC4A 2AG
Tel No: 020 7404 1400 Fax No: 020 7831 8838
(Official Shorthand Writers to the Court)


MR JAMES FINDLAY (instructed by Sharpe Pritchard) appeared on behalf of the
CLAIMANT
MR PETER MADDOX (instructed by Kearns & Co) appeared on behalf of the
DEFENDANT

J U D G M E N T


© Crown Copyright with acknowledgement to
www.bailii.org


1. MR JUSTICE COLLINS: This is an appeal by way of case stated by District Judge
Gray, sitting at Grays in Essex. He had before him five informations laid by the deputy
town clerk of Brentwood Borough Council against Mr Gladen (the respondent), each in
identical terms relating to different dates. It is therefore only necessary to read one of
them, which was that he:
"On 16 December 2002 did knowingly operate a Ford Mondeo as a
private hire vehicle within the area of Brentwood Borough Council being
a controlled District under Part II of the Local Government
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 without having a current Operators
Licence under section 55 of that Act."

The district judge acquitted the respondent of all five charges, and it is against that
acquittal that the prosecutor now appeals.

2. There was no issue as to the facts. Essentially, on the various dates an employee of the
Council telephoned the relevant telephone number in Brentwood, asking for "848 cars",
that being part of the telephone number in question, and a taxi was duly sent, picked the
individual up and took him or her to the place where he or she wished to go. Having
made those findings, in paragraph 5 of the case the district judge continues:
"(vi) Brentwood Borough Council adopted Part II of the Local Government
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 on 6 November 1985 and the area of
Brentwood Borough Council has from that date been a controlled area for
the purposes of Part II of the Act.

(vii) The vehicles referred to in paragraphs 1 to 5 above whether driven by
Mr Gladen or others did so as a result of the telephone bookings referred
to in those paragraphs.
(viii) Those vehicles attended in accordance with the requests made and those
requests were received by the defendant responding as '848 cars'.
(ix) On each case referred to in paragraphs 1 to 5 both the vehicle and the
driver concerned were properly licensed as hackney carriages and
hackney carriage drivers respectively."
3. The argument was that, although they were licensed as hackney carriages and although
the drivers were equally licensed as hackney carriage drivers, there was a requirement
under the legislation that there should be an operator's licence under the relevant
provisions of Part II of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976
because they were, by virtue of section 46(1)(d) of the 1976 Act, to be regarded as
requiring an operator's licence under that Act, to enable the particular operations to be
carried out lawfully.
4. As Mr Findlay submitted then and now, the need for such controls is to ensure that
there are proper records kept of calls received and of the dispatching of the vehicles,
and therefore, if there are any complaints, then it can be easily seen when a booking
was made and when the vehicle was dispatched so as to ensure that the operation was
being carried out properly and in the interests of the public, and people were not likely

to be subject to unnecessary and possibly even dangerous delays in being picked up
from wherever they wished to be picked up.

5. It is first necessary to have a look at the legislation, part of which is to be found in the
provisions of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847, which deals with hackney carriages,
and part in Part II of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976,
which introduced a licensing scheme for private hire vehicles, but also has additional
provisions relating to hackney carriages.
6. Section 37 of the 1847 Act requires that a hackney carriage should be licensed, and
section 38 defines what are to be deemed to be hackney carriages, which essentially
are:
"Every wheeled carriage, whatever may be its form or construction, used

in standing or plying for hire in any street within the prescribed distance."

7. That is just the commencement of the relevant section. Essentially, the idea behind a
hackney carriage was and is that it is a vehicle that can be flagged down in the street: it
plies for hire or can be found standing at a stand or perhaps outside an office, where
anyone can go and require to be taken to a place within the district in question or
outside if agreement is reached on the amount to be paid.
8. In addition, under section 46 of the 1847 Act there was a requirement that the drivers
also should be licensed, and thus one has a licence, which attaches to the vehicle and a
licence which attaches to the driver; both must be held.
9. Finally, so far as drivers are concerned, and indeed generally, section 68 of the 1847
Act enables byelaws to be made for, among other things, regulating the conduct of the
proprietors and drivers of hackney carriages, plying within the prescribed distance in
their several employments, and so on.
10. The 1976 Act, Part II, deals with the licensing of vehicles being used for the purposes
of private hire. That imposes a requirement that the vehicle and the driver be licensed,
much as in the case of hackney carriages, but, in addition, it requires that the operator
should be licensed. The purpose behind that is, as Mr Findlay submits, to enable a
check to be kept to ensure that the operation is being carried out properly and the public
are getting a proper service and the matter is being dealt with in terms of safety in an
appropriate manner. But the operator's licence is an additional licence, which was not
required for the purposes of the 1847 Act for hackney carriage operators. That,
perhaps, is not altogether surprising since the concept behind a hackney carriage would
not easily, on the face of it, include the situation where one rings up a central office and
a hackney carriage, or a taxi which has a hackney carriage licence, is dispatched to pick
someone up. But by 1976 it is apparent that such means of getting taxis was common
place and Parliament must be taken to have appreciated that. The whole purpose
behind the 1976 Act, as I understand it, was to bring within licensing control those who
were operating private hire; it being recognised that hackney carriages already had the
controls under the 1847 Act. It was regarded as not in the interests of the public that
there should be the possibility of a separate provision of private hire vehicles which
was outside any licensing scheme.
SMITH BERNAL WORDWAVE


11. Part II of the 1976 Act is careful throughout to distinguish what is required for those
who have hackney carriage licences and for those who simply deal in private hire. But
it is also clearly recognised that hackney carriages can be used for the purposes of
private hire. So much is clear from section 67 of the 1976 Act, which has the side note,
"Hackney carriages used for private hire" and provides by subsection (1):
"No hackney carriage shall be used in the district under a contract or
purported contract for private hire except at a rate of fares or charges not
greater than that fixed by the byelaws or table mentioned in section 66 of
the Act, and, when any such hackney carriage is so used, the fare or
charge shall be calculated from the point in the district at which the hirer
commences his journey."

12. Subsection (2) creates an offence for the knowing contravention of that provision. In
subsection (3) it is provided:
"In subsection (1) of this section 'contract' means


(a) a contract made otherwise than while the relevant hackney carriage is
plying for hire in the district or waiting at a place in the district which,
when the contract is made, is a stand for hackney carriages appointed by
the district council under section 3 of this Act; and
(b) a contract made, otherwise than with or through the driver of the
relevant hackney carriage, while it is so plying or waiting."
That section clearly recognises the possibility that hackney carriages can be obtained
otherwise than through being flagged down in the street or approached when standing
on a stand.

13. Going back, I should perhaps start with section 46 which is the section under which
these prosecutions were brought. That provides:
(1) Except as authorised by this Part of this Act(
a) no person being the proprietor of any vehicle, not being a hackney
carriage or London cab in respect of which a vehicle licence is in
force, shall use or permit the same to be used in a controlled district
as a private hire vehicle without having for such a vehicle a current
licence under section 48 of this Act."
14. Section 48 provides for the licensing of the vehicle. Subsection (b) prohibits a person
from driving without a driver's licence, and that is a licence, which is provided under
section 51 of the 1976 Act. Subsection (c) prevents a proprietor of a private hire
vehicle, licensed under the Act, from employing a driver who has not got a licence.
Then we come to (d) and (e) which read:
"(d) no person shall in a controlled district operate any vehicle as a private
hire vehicle without having a current licence under section 55 of this Act;

(e) no person licensed under the said section 55 shall in a controlled district
operate any vehicle as a private hire vehicle-
SMITH BERNAL WORDWAVE


(i) if for the vehicle a current licence under the said section 48 is not in
force; or
(ii) if the driver does not have a current licence under the said section
51."
So (d) and (e) are clearly complementary in the sense that (d) prevents a person from
operating a vehicle as a private hire vehicle without an operator's licence, and (e)
prevents a person, even if he does have an operator's licence, from operating a vehicle
which is not itself licensed as a private hire vehicle, or using any driver who is not
licensed as the driver of a private hire vehicle.

15. It is important to note that Parliament, in section 80 of the Act, has defined certain
terms for the purposes of Part II. It is headed, as all interpretation sections are, "In this
Part of this Act, unless the subject or context otherwise requires". The relevant terms
for our purposes are "operate", which is defined as meaning "in the course of business
to make provision for the invitation or acceptance of bookings for a private hire
vehicle"; "operator's licence", which means a licence under section 55 of the Act and
"private hire vehicle", which means:
" ... a motor vehicle constructed or adapted to seat [fewer than nine
passengers], other than a hackney carriage or public service vehicle [or a
London cab] [or tram car], which is provided for hire with the services of
a driver for the purpose of carrying passengers."

16. Now, it is, in my view, quite clear that the drafting of section 46 is with the technical
meanings in mind. It is true that one could say that, in certain respects, there could
have been omissions of various words if one simply went to the definition section, but
that would make the wording of the section itself less than clear. It is important,
therefore, to note that licensing of operators is dealt with in section 55 and that a licence
under section 55 of the Act must be a licence which enables what is there set out to be
done.
17. Section 55(1) provides:
"Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act, a district council shall,
on receipt of an application from any person for the grant to that person of
a licence to operate private hire vehicles grant to that person an operator's
licence."

So it is a licence to operate private hire vehicles.

18. Section 56 which is headed, "Operators of private hire vehicles", by subsection (2), for
example, provides:
"Every person to whom a licence in force under section 55 of this Act has
been granted by a district council shall keep a record in such form as the
council may, by condition attached to the grant of the licence, prescribe ...

(3) Every person to whom a licence in force under section 55 of this Act
has been granted by a district council shall keep such records as the
council may, by condition attached to the grant of the licence [et cetera]."
SMITH BERNAL WORDWAVE


19. It is clear from those provisions that it is only a person who is operating private hire
vehicles who needs to be granted such a licence, and more importantly, he is the only
person in respect of whom conditions under section 56 can be imposed.
20. Looking at various other provisions in Part II, one sees that the distinction between
what is required for a hackney carriage and what is required for a private hire vehicle
are specifically kept apart. I am not going to refer to the relevant sections in detail, but
one sees this throughout sections 58 to 66 and 68 and 69 -- section 67 I have already
referred to.
21. It seems to me quite clear that the word "operate" in section 46(1)(b) has the technical
meaning which is set out in section 80(1). Mr Findlay submits that it should have a
wider meaning because the words "operate as a private hire vehicle" are unnecessary
since "operate" itself is defined as meaning "in the course of business to make provision
for the invitation or acceptance of bookings for a private hire vehicle". But as it seems
to me, there is no reason why the draftsman, for the avoidance of any doubt, should not
have included the words "as a private hire vehicle" within that subsection.
22. Furthermore, in Benson v Boyce [1997] RTR 226, a case which concerned section
46(1)(b), not (d), of the Act, this court did consider generally the framework of section
46(1). Mance J (as he then was) at page 231 of the report at letter F says this:
"Looking at the other subsections of section 46, the first applies to a
proprietor of a vehicle who uses or permits it to be used in a controlled
district as a private hire vehicle without having a licence for it as such
under section 48. The phrase 'as a private hire vehicle' appears, I accept,
to indicate that a proprietor who used or permitted use in a controlled
district without a licence under section 48, for purposes other than hiring
falling within the Act, would not be committing an offence. Assuming
that to be so, it does not appear to throw real light on the proper
interpretation of paragraph (d) of subsection (1), dealing in different terms
with the different questions of driving [pausing there, I think that should
be (b) rather than (d), in context. That is a misprint in the Road Traffic
Reports]. In the context of legislation designed to control the use of
private hire vehicles, which (as the present case illustrates) may include
vehicles of some bulk, the intention may still have been to restrict driving
in controlled districts to licensed drivers in all the circumstances. When
one turns to paragraph (c) of subsection (1), the words 'for the purpose of
any hiring' are plainly directed at the specific purposes of the proprietor's
employment of a driver. Again, the wording is in contrast with paragraph

(b) of subsection (1), where it would have been easy to express a similar
restriction, if it had been intended. Paragraphs (d) and (e) of subsection
(1) deal with persons operating vehicles as private hire vehicles. Under
section 80(1) 'operate' is defined as meaning 'in the course of business to
make provision for the invitation or acceptance of bookings for a private
hire vehicle'. It does not seem to me either surprising, or significant in
relation to the issue before us, that the offences introduced in respect of
operators are, by the phrase 'as a private hire vehicle' related to the
operation of the private hire vehicle as such."
SMITH BERNAL WORDWAVE


23. That may explain why the draftsman thought it right to include those words in both (d)
and (e), although they might be said otherwise to have been included within the word
"operate". He put the matter, as it seems to me, beyond any doubt. Furthermore, what
Mance J there said is an indication that, in his view, the word "operate" had the
technical meaning as set out in section 80(1). The importance of that is that Mr Findlay
has submitted that "operate" should be given a wider meaning, and that, effectively, it
should mean little more than "makes use of" in the sense of provides a private hire
vehicle for carrying out any business which any individual wants to be carried out by
means of such a vehicle. It also gives little scope to the limitation to the licence being a
licence under section 55 because no licence under section 55 is required to operate a
hackney carriage. That is plain from the wording in section 80(1) of the definition of
private hire vehicle because a hackney carriage is specifically excluded from that
definition.
24. It is also to be noted that the same wording, that is to say "operate any vehicle as a
private hire vehicle" occurs in section 46(1)(e), and Mr Findlay accepts, as indeed is
obvious, that it would be absurd to suggest that a person who operates for the purpose
of private hire and provides duly licensed hackney carriages and hackney carriage
drivers should be committing an offence if those hackney carriage drivers and vehicles
do not also have a private hire vehicle and driver's licence. But that would clearly
result if the construction which Mr Findlay seeks to place upon the words "operate any
vehicle as a private hire vehicle" were to prevail. Mr Findlay seeks to get out of that
difficulty by submitting that the words at the outset of section 46(1), "except as
authorised by this part of this Act", will through section 67 (because he accepts that
there is no other specific authorisation) enable sense to prevail and to indicate that
section 46(1)(e) is not being contravened.
25. The difficulty with that is that section 67 does not provide an authorisation for
anything. It simply provides that it is unlawful to charge more if you use a hackney
carriage for a private hire than would be permissible were it being used as a hackney
carriage. It does not provide for the authorisation of anything. It simply recognises that
it is not unlawful to use hackney carriages as private hire vehicles.
26. Accordingly, although I would not follow the district judge in his suggestion that
46(1)(d) must be read subject to 46(1)(e), the construction of the same words used in
each points to the impossibility of the construction being sought to be applied by Mr
Findlay.
27. In fairness to Mr Findlay, this construction is one which has appealed to others. It
appealed to Judge Allardice, sitting in the Crown Court at Worcester in June 1991.
However, his decision perhaps has even less weight than it might otherwise have had
because it is apparent that the argument before him was misconceived. One sees that
looking at page 16 of the transcript with which we have been provided, where at letter F
he says this:
"The argument put forward by Mr Salmon and for which to a very large
extent he relies on the Liverpool case [that was another Crown Court
case], is that section 67 is a permissive section which allows all vehicles
licensed as hackney carriages to be used also for private hire. It is a clear
submission which, if it were successful, would seem to me (and I intend
no pun) to drive a coach and horses through the Act."

SMITH BERNAL WORDWAVE


If that was the argument that was being used to suggest that 46(1)(d) did not require an
operator's licence where a hackney carriage was used as a private hire vehicle, then, for
my part, I can well understand why it was given short shrift. It does not appear from
the argument, or from the decision, that the learned judge was referred to the matter in
the detail which should have been provided.

28. The other source which Mr Findlay relies on is a book entitled Taxis -- Licensing Law
and Practice by Mr James Button. In that, he discusses the question of hackney
carriages used as private hire vehicles. At paragraph 13.60 he says this:
"A question which often arises concerns the use of hackney carriages as
private hire vehicles. This can occur in one of two ways. First, the
hackney carriage can be used effectively as a private hire vehicle because
a booking is made with a person, either by telephone or in person, and a
vehicle, which is a hackney carriage, is dispatched to fulfil the booking.
Secondly, a private hire operator can operate a vehicle as a private hire
vehicle, but the vehicle is licensed as a hackney carriage."

29. He then sets out the relevant provisions of section 46, and then at 13.64 he says this:
"It appears that the effect of [the 1976 Act], s.46(1)(d) is to require an
operator's licence for a person who operates 'any vehicle as a private hire
vehicle', the effect being to bring within the provisions of that subsection
any vehicle that maybe operated for the purposes of a private hire vehicle,
irrespective of whether or not the vehicle itself is actually a private hire
vehicle. This obviously therefore includes hackney carriages which are
pre-booked, as a pre-booked hackney carriage falls within the definition
of operate within [the 1976 Act], s.80."

30. With the greatest respect to Mr Button, I am afraid I cannot agree with what he there
says. It seems to me apparent that section 80 excludes hackney carriages from section
46(1)(d). I say that because, without going in detail over ground that I have already
covered, "operate" relates to business in relation to bookings for a private hire vehicle.
An "operator's licence" means a licence under section 55, and a "private hire vehicle" is
defined as meaning a vehicle other than a hackney carriage. Thus, that, coupled with
the provisions of section 55 and 56 which I have already read, seem to me to make it
apparent that Parliament has recognised that different regimes apply to hackney
carriages and to private hire vehicles, and that it is not necessary for a licensed hackney
carriage, driven by a licensed hackney carriage driver, to be subject also to the
requirements of an operator's licence; otherwise the limitations on the wording which
Parliament has clearly set out would not be given their true meaning.
31. It is true that, if one looks at it at face value without considering the technical meaning,
the words "operate any vehicle as a private hire vehicle" could lead to the belief that
hackney carriages were included because a hackney carriage is obviously a vehicle.
But, as it seems to me, that is quite impossible having regard to the meanings which
Parliament has attached to the various words and to which I have already referred.
32. Mr Findlay submits that the result of that will leave a gap, in the sense that the public's
protection, which is provided for by the need for an operator's licence in relation to
private hire vehicles, is removed when one is dealing with hackney carriages. There
SMITH BERNAL WORDWAVE


are of course many instances where hackney carriages will operate in much the same
way as private hire vehicles, in that members of the public will ring up and ask for a
cab, and they do not, on the whole one suspects, really mind what sort of cab they get,
provided it is properly licensed and they know that the driver is properly controlled.

33. It was suggested in the course of argument that conditions might be imposed under the
1847 Act, and indeed the 1976 Act, which supplements it to some extent. There were
observations made by Maurice Kay J in a case which was cited to us, R v Doncaster
Metropolitan Borough Council ex parte Heath (unreported), decided on 16 October
2000. That case is not directly in point, but it is to be noted that the submission made
then to Maurice Kay J was that the schemes relating to hackney carriages and private
hire vehicles were two distinct schemes, and that the issues in that case had arisen
because the Council had fallen into the trap of seeking to apply private hire statutory
provisions to a hackney carriage situation. Although Maurice Kay J did not specifically
have to deal with that point, it is plain from the tenor of his judgment that he was
entirely sympathetic to it and essentially agreed with it. But what he did say in
paragraph 21 of his judgment was that the Council might be able to require persons in
the position of the applicant in that case, who was licensed under the 1847 Act, to
provide information in advance about who would act as a substitute driver in a case of
need, and further requiring him or anyone else driving the vehicle to keep a
contemporaneous record of who drove which vehicle on what day. No doubt, this is
very sensible, but we have been referred to the relevant provisions of the two Acts and
the only conditions which can be attached in relation to hackney carriages appears to be
those arising under section 47 of the 1976 Act, which enables conditions to be attached
to the grant of a licence of a hackney carriage but not a driver's licence. So far as the
driver is concerned, byelaws under section 68 of the Act can be imposed, and as far as I
can see there is no reason in principle why, if there is a problem in any particular
district, the Local Council should not decide to try to impose byelaws which require a
driver to provide the information which they regard as desirable in the interests of the
public and to keep records which equally are considered desirable. If any Council
which has a problem is able to persuade the Department that some such conditions are
needed, then no doubt they could be imposed. But that is as far as it can go.
34. I have reached the clear view that the district judge in this case was correct and that
section 46(1)(d) is not breached where a licensed hackney carriage and a licensed
hackney carriage driver is provided for the relevant conveyance of a passenger, albeit it
is provided through an operator. In those circumstances, an operator's licence under
section 55 of the Act is not appropriate, since that section does not cover hackney
carriages.
35. The district judge posed this question for the opinion of the High Court:
"Whether it is necessary to hold a licence under section 55 of the Local
Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, in an area where that
Act is in force, to operate a hackney carriage duly licensed as such under
the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 as a private hire vehicle."

36. The answer to that question is: no. Accordingly, I would dismiss this appeal.
37. MR JUSTICE SILBER: I agree that this appeal must be dismissed.
SMITH BERNAL WORDWAVE


38. MR MADDOX: My Lords, in those circumstances I would seek an order that the
respondent's costs of the appeal should be paid.
39. MR JUSTICE COLLINS: You cannot resist that, can you?
40. MR FINDLAY: My Lord, I am going to try and shift the burden. My Lord, what I
would propose to your Lordships is that, instead of costs being awarded against this
particular District Council, they are awarded out of central funds and a defendant's
costs order be made.
41. MR JUSTICE COLLINS: I think that is what we would normally do. As far as your
clients are concerned, they do not mind who pays it as long as they are paid.
42. MR MADDOX: My Lord, I think that must be right.
43. MR JUSTICE SILBER: That would be the normal order that we would make because
it was the court which reached the decision, although you persuaded it to do so, or
rather you were not able to persuade it not to do so, but it is the decision of the court,
and normally then central funds would be appropriate.
44. MR FINDLAY: My Lord, I am grateful. My Lord, also in this case, although your
Lordships have reached a very clear conclusion, your Lordship will be aware from what
I have (inaudible) it is a matter of considerable concern to –
45. MR JUSTICE COLLINS: It is only surprising that it has not been expressly decided in
the --whatever it is --28 years that this has been in force. We have now decided it,
rightly or wrongly.
SMITH BERNAL WORDWAVE

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:15 pm 
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35. The district judge posed this question for the opinion of the High Court:

"Whether it is necessary to hold a licence under section 55 of the Local
Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, in an area where that
Act is in force, to operate a hackney carriage duly licensed as such under
the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 as a private hire vehicle."


36. The answer to that question is: no. Accordingly, I would dismiss this appeal.

:wink:

CC

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:31 pm 
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A reply from Mr Wilson after I sent him a copy of the Gladen case

Thanks for your email. The Council has been aware of the Brentwood v Gladen case since 2004 and has relied upon it in our response to the judicial review case.

Regards,

David

David B Wilson
Licensing Manager


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skippy41 wrote:
A reply from Mr Wilson after I sent him a copy of the Gladen case

Thanks for your email. The Council has been aware of the Brentwood v Gladen case since 2004 and has relied upon it in our response to the judicial review case.

Regards,

David

David B Wilson
Licensing Manager


So Mr Wilson (as advised by JB) believe that as a result of a Judge stating a Hackney Carriage Proprietor doesnt need a section 55 license (PH Operators license) and this means a Hackney Carriage can be operated as a private hire vehicle anywhere?

55. Licensing of operators of private hire vehicles.—

(1) Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act, a district council shall, on receipt of an application from any person for the grant to that person of a licence to operate private hire vehicles grant to that person an operator’s licence:

Provided that a district council shall not grant a licence unless they are satisfied that the applicant is a fit and proper person to hold an operator’s licence.

(2) Every licence granted under this section shall remain in force for such period, not being longer than five years, as a district council may specify in the licence.

(3) A district council may attach to the grant of a licence under this section such conditions as they may consider reasonably necessary.

(4) Any applicant aggrieved by the refusal of a district council to grant an operator’s licence under this section, or by any conditions attached to the grant of such a licence, may appeal to a magistrates’ court.


Seems to be a bit of a construction to me.

The Judge did say this though :wink:

30. With the greatest respect to Mr Button, I am afraid I cannot agree with what he there says. It seems to me apparent that section 80 excludes hackney carriages from section

46(1)(d). I say that because, without going in detail over ground that I have already covered, "operate" relates to business in relation to bookings for a private hire vehicle.

An "operator's licence" means a licence under section 55, and a "private hire vehicle" is defined as meaning a vehicle other than a hackney carriage.

Thus, that, coupled with the provisions of section 55 and 56 which I have already read, seem to me to make it apparent that Parliament has recognised that different regimes apply to hackney carriages and to private hire vehicles, and that it is not necessary for a licensed hackney carriage, driven by a licensed hackney carriage driver, to be subject also to the requirements of an operator's licence; otherwise the limitations on the wording which Parliament has clearly set out would not be given their true meaning.


CC

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The above aside Skippy, you tell us this judgement states;


Quote:
As the high court has already made judgment on this case, regarding being licenced in one area and working in another,


Where exactly?

CC

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Perhaps they might want to get hold of this one too skippy;

Neutral Citation Number: [2003] EWHC 1900 (Admin)
CO/5198/2002

IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE
QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION
THE ADMINISTRATIVE COURT

Royal Courts of Justice
Strand
London WC2
Thursday, 3 July 2003


B e f o r e :

MR JUSTICE MACKAY
____________________

THE QUEEN ON THE APPLICATION OF SHANKS (CLAIMANT)
-v-
NORTH TYNESIDE COUNCIL (DEFENDANT)

____________________

Computer-Aided Transcript of the Stenograph Notes of
Smith Bernal Wordwave Limited
190 Fleet Street London EC4A 2AG
Tel No: 020 7404 1400 Fax No: 020 7831 8838
(Official Shorthand Writers to the Court)

____________________

MR J RODGER appeared on behalf of the CLAIMANT
MR J RANKIN appeared on behalf of the DEFENDANT
____________________

HTML VERSION OF JUDGMENT
____________________

Crown Copyright ©

MR JUSTICE MACKAY: It is always difficult to adjudicate on costs when one has not decided a case, but luckily I had read this case as a contested matter -- and I do not intend this as any criticism of anybody -- before the terms of agreement. The fact that there were terms of agreement was communicated to me so I do have a feel for the issues.

I think in favour of the claimants the point is that essentially the declaration gives them what they need, and if the language of success or victory is used, they are better described as victims out of the very sensible agreement that the parties have reached in the sense that it essentially gives them what they set out to get: to clarify their licensing position.

There is some force in the argument of Mr Rankin that this could have gone down a different route, but I suspect this dispute would have finished in this court one way or the other whatever the magistrates had ruled. This is classically an administrative law point. I cannot categorise as unreasonable the claimant's desire to use this court and to seek the position of this court to do so. I do not think they should have run the risk of prosecution and contested the matter in that way.

So far as service of the skeletons are concerned, Mr Rodgers candidly says he was a little late with his responses to the skeleton which seems to have swayed Mr Rankin and his clients finally to accede to these terms, but as he points out, he did not actually have an obligation to serve it at all and could have held his fire until the oral hearing today.

I am always slow as a matter of instinct to penalise or to order costs against defendants to claims of this sort who reach terms of settlement in a sensible way, as I think these defendants have done, which involves them re-thinking and re-considering their position to an extent and they must never be discouraged from so doing.

That having been said, the issue at heart here is a purely legal one. It was always pretty clear, in my judgment, what the claimants were saying and costs could have been saved if the re-consideration had taken place a little earlier than it did.

Both parties agree that I should therefore decide this question of costs as best as I can on the submissions and information before me. In the exercise of my discretion on the facts of this case I will order that the defendants pay the claimant's costs of these proceedings, and that they should be subject to a detailed assessment if the parties agree that could usefully take place in Newcastle-upon-Tyne County Court to be the venue for that taxation.

I make the declaration by consent in the terms sought, namely that:

"A private hire vehicle operator is not precluded from using Hackney Carriages for a private hiring."

The parties are happy that has the effect of clarifying or amending the conditions they impose on this kind of licence. I make that declaration by consent having received an undertaking from the claimants and a withdrawal of its complaint in respect of this matter at the North Tyneside Magistrates Court.

MR RODGER: My Lord, my learned friend rightly prompts me to mention the issue of costs at the magistrates court. I think we are agreed that those costs should lay where they fall.

MR JUSTICE MACKAY: No order as to the costs of the magistrates proceedings.

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Well CC if you cannot see it yet thats your problem, its been and gone and won. :roll: :D 8)
Mind you it took several years before you where found out, :shock: :shock: about the station rank, and had to eat humble pie when JD and the rest of us pointed to the era of your ways and dirty tricks :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :D :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Gladen court case
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:37 am 
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skippy41 wrote:
could the same apply in Scotland :?: :?: or are our laws different in this case

Getting back to the original question you asked skippy, the answer is no because we are governed by the CGSA 1982. Neither the 1976 or 1847 acts apply in Scotland. A hack or PH can accept work outside of their licensed area, as long as they are:

    (a) in the area or in that part thereof in respect of which its operation and its driver are licensed; or
    (b) engaged on hire on a journey which began in that area or part or will end there; or
    (c) returning to that area or part immediately following completion of a journey on hire.

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In simple terms all it means is that you can accept jobs in another area if you are working in your own area, undertaking a job from your own area to another or returning from such a job.

Thus you can do cross-border jobs, but what you can't do is wait in another area for a job, as happens down south.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:33 am 
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skippy41 wrote:
Well CC if you cannot see it yet thats your problem, its been and gone and won. :roll: :D 8)
Mind you it took several years before you where found out, :shock: :shock: about the station rank, and had to eat humble pie when JD and the rest of us pointed to the era of your ways and dirty tricks :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :D :D :D


I dont think you can see it either skippy, could you please tell me where it says a Hackney carriage can be used as a private hire vehicle exclusively in another licensing area.

And I dont recall ever being able to make decisions for local authorities, but thanks for the complement.

CC

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