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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:07 pm 
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Recently Garry and Jim submitted some searching questions to Edinburgh City council. The replies they got back were totally unsatisfactory insofar that they failed to answer the substance of these questions. One of those questions related to license fees and the costs involved in the implementation of issuing these licenses. CEC stated that the reason why the initial grant of a taxi operator license fee is so high is because they believe that taxi operators should subsidise Taxi driver licenses.

In order to respond to the negative replies of CEC Jim feels the need to show CEC that in comparison with other licensed areas in Scotland and England that the license fees in Edinburgh are totally dispreportionate to the rest of the UK.

Whether or not Taxi operators subsidising Taxi driver licenses is legal i do not know but I'm sure we will find out?

The fact is that Jim Taylor and Garry Thompson have done you guys in Scotland a favour because they have highlighted the wide discrepancy in Scottish licensing fees.

It has always been my contention that removing Taxi licensing from the hands of councillors and having a national regional licensing body with uniform licensing fees such as they are in other industries would create a level playing field in licence fees.

The debate about licensing fees should be one that we all can join because it effects each and every one of us. I don't know what the Scottish National Taxi association has done in the past or intends to do in the future about making these fees transparent and perhaps in uniformity but they should start by calling for new Taxi legislation which will have the effect of amongst other things, removing Taxi licensing from the hands of councillors altogether.

The list below is not complete but it will be by Monday. Any discrepancies in this list will be rectified.
.........................................................

Aberdeen Council.

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year Grant 354.00 Renewal 199.00

Driver license.
1 year Grant 40.00 Renewal 33.00
……………………………..

Angus Council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year Taxi/Private Hire Car Operators initial lodging fee £87.00. For CRB check etc. Plate fee. £21.00 per year.
Cars with meters Granting fee 1 Year £250.00 Renewal £210.00.
3 years £625

Driver license.
1 year New licence and drivers aged "over 65 £92.00 Renewal £77.00
3 years £195.00 drivers under 65

Taxi/Private Hire Car Operators initial lodging fee £87.00. For CRB check etc. Annual renewal £72.00.
Cars without meters Granting fee 1 Year £210.00 Renewal £175.00
3 Years £525
………………………………………………………

Argyll & Bute

Taxi vehicle license.
3 years 360.00

Driver license.
3 years 90.00
……………………………………..

Clackmannanshire Council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year 81.00 To be confirmed?

Driver license.
1 year 81.00
………………………………………

Dumfries and Galloway council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year
2 years
3 years

Driver license.
1 year
2 years
3 years
……………………………………………

Dundee.

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year 170.00

Driver license.
1 year 75.00 Renewal 65.00
……………………………………

East Ayrshire Council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year
2 years
3 years

Driver license.
1 year
2 years
3 years
……………………………………….

East Dunbartonshire

Taxi vehicle license.
3 years 275.00

Driver license.
3 years 125.00
……………………………………..

East Lothian

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year 120.00

Driver license.
1 year 30.00
……………………………………….

EAST RENFREWSHIRE COUNCIL

Taxi vehicle license.
3 years 280.00

Taxi Driver license.
3 years 160.00

Private Hire Driver £150.00 3 years
Knowledge Test £ 10.00

Private Hire Operator £250 3 years
Substitution of Vehicle £ 30
Vehicle Inspection (annually all vehicles) £ 80
Vehicle Re-test £ 30
Trailer Inspection (annually) £ 25
Front Fixing Kit £ 10
Front insert only £ 5
Rear Fixing Kit £ 10
Rear insert only £ 6
Variation to Licence £ 40
………………………………………..

Edinburgh city council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year Initial application 875.00 Renewal 150.00

Driver license.
1 year 42.00 New Driver
3 years 90.00 Renewal

151. ADVERTISEMENT APPROVAL interior (tip up seats) 5.00
152. Screen advertising system (subject to approval) 5.00
152. Exterior doors (include interior) 14.00
153. superside (include interior) 25.00
154. full livery (include interior) 70.00
155. CANCELLATION OF INSPECTION 14.00
156. CHANGE OF MANAGER 38.00
157. CONDITIONS BOOK 5.00
158. DUPLICATE CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE 7.00
159. DUPLICATE ID BADGE 6.00
160. DUPLICATE LICENCE 28.00
161. PRIVATE HIRE CAR new vehicle 1 year 700.00 changed to 850
162. renewal vehicle 1 year 120.00
163. new driver 1 year 32.00
164. renewal driver 3 years 75.00 changed to 90.00
165. PARTNERSHIP 700.00
166. REPLACEMENT PLATE (INCLUDING DISABLED) 7.00
167. TAXI & PRIVATE HIRE new vehicle 1 year previous 700.00 changed to 875.00
168. TAXI & PRIVATE HIRE renewal vehicle 1 year previous120.00 changed to 150.00

169. TAXI new driver 1 year 42.00
170. PRIVATE HIRE new driver 1 year 32.00 40.00
171. TAXI & PRIVATE HIRE renewal driver 3 years 75.00 90.00
172. TAXI TEST RE-SIT 0
173. VARIATION TO INCORPORATE INSPECTION ON CHANGE OF VEHICLE 14.00
174. VEHICLE RE-TEST 20.00
175. WHEELCHAIR EXEMPTION CERTIFICATE 0
……………………………………………

Falkirk

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year 220.00

Driver license.
1 year 176.00

The above information needs clarifying.
……………………………………..

Fife

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year 147.00
3 years 356.00

Driver license.
1 year 37.00
3 years 93.00
……………………………….

Glasgow

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year 149.00
2 years 267.00
3 years 357.00

Driver license.
1 year 60.00
2 years 107.00
3 years 145.00

Knowledge test 20.00
………………………………………..

Highland Council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year Vehicle test 65.00
3 years Grant 291.00 Renewal 291.00

Driver license.
3 years 187.00
……………………………..

Inverclyde council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year 163.50 plus test 110.50 = 274.00

Driver license.
1 year 35.00
……………………………………

Midlothian council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year First application 256.00 Renewal 212.00

Driver license.
1 year First application 68.00 Renewal 33.00
……………………………………

Moray council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year 238.00 including test

Driver license.
1 year First application 45.00 Renewal 25.00
………………………………

North Ayrshire council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year 384.00 test inclusive
3 years 619.00 test inclusive

Driver license.
3 years 165.00
……………………………………

North Lanarkshire council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year Grant £339 Renewal £298

Driver license.
1 year grant £138 Renewal £126 possibly 3 years
2 years
3 years
…………………………………..

Orkney council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year Grant113 Renewal 113

Driver license.
1 year 36.00
3 years 100.00
……………………………..

Perth & kinross council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year 240.00 excluding test fee non refundable

Driver license.
1 year 80.00 non refundable
3 years 125.00
…………………………………………..

Renfrewshire council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year New Grant £150.00 Renewal £190.00 Test £36.00 Combined MOT and inspection £52.00

Driver license.
1 year New Grant £39.00 Renewal £78.00
………………………………..

Scottish Borders licensing fees.

Taxi vehicle license.
3 years Grant of Licence £486.00 payable in 3 annual instalments of £162

Driver license.
1 year 69.00

With effect from 5 April 2004 Taxis Etc:
………………………………………………

Shetland islands council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year Grant 355.00 Renewal 80.00

Driver license.
3 years 40.00
………………………………..

South Ayrshire council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year £340.00 plus annual inspection £120.00

Driver license.
1 year £145.00
………………………………..

South Lanarkshire council to confirm. 4 zones

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year 313.00

Driver license.
1 year 117.00
………………………………..

Stirling council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year Grant 93.00 ? Renewal 93.00 ?

Driver license.
1 year Grant 63.00 Renewal 63.00
………………………………..

West Dunbartonshire council

Taxi & Private Hire vehicle license.
3 years 398.00 Grant or Renewal

Driver license.
1 year 176.00
………………………………..

West Lothian council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year Grant 306 Renewal 277

Driver license.
3 years Grant 142.00 renewal 120.00
………………………………..

Western isles council

Taxi vehicle license.
1 year
2 years
3 years

Driver license.
1 year
2 years
3 years
...............................


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:28 am 
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JD wrote:
Whether or not Taxi operators subsidising Taxi driver licenses is legal i do not know but I'm sure we will find out?



Sounds dodgy, but even if it was legal how does that explain the huge discrepancy between the initial application and renewals? It looks more like a case of new vehicle license applications subsidising existing vehicle licenses.

I don't know if you've come across an SDD circular (I think the SDD is the Scottish Development Department, which was part of the old Scottish Office, and this will now be the responsibility of the Scottish Executive).

The circular said:

"Differing levels of fees should bear an obvious relationship to costs incurred (for example a taxi driver's licence involving a "knowledge test" should cost more than a private hire driver's licence )and the Secretary of State expects that authorities will ensure that costs are kept to the minimum, and that the basis for the fees charged should be explained to the local trade organisations, who should be consulted well before charges or adjustments are proposed. It may often be convenient to adjust charges at the same time as taxi fares are reviewed" - para 2.25 of App A to SDD Circular 6/1983, as substituted by SDD Circular 25/1986."

The most relevant part of that is the opening words, therefore the council should have to show that the costs incurred in processing a new vehicle licence application are sufficient to justify to fee charged. It seems unlikely that there are costs incurred in relation to a new licence as compared to a renewal to justify the extra fee.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:50 am 
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Fae Fife wrote:
JD wrote:
Whether or not Taxi operators subsidising Taxi driver licenses is legal i do not know but I'm sure we will find out?



Sounds dodgy, but even if it was legal how does that explain the huge discrepancy between the initial application and renewals? It looks more like a case of new vehicle license applications subsidising existing vehicle licenses.

I don't know if you've come across an SDD circular (I think the SDD is the Scottish Development Department, which was part of the old Scottish Office, and this will now be the responsibility of the Scottish Executive).

The circular said:

"Differing levels of fees should bear an obvious relationship to costs incurred (for example a taxi driver's licence involving a "knowledge test" should cost more than a private hire driver's licence )and the Secretary of State expects that authorities will ensure that costs are kept to the minimum, and that the basis for the fees charged should be explained to the local trade organisations, who should be consulted well before charges or adjustments are proposed. It may often be convenient to adjust charges at the same time as taxi fares are reviewed" - para 2.25 of App A to SDD Circular 6/1983, as substituted by SDD Circular 25/1986."

The most relevant part of that is the opening words, therefore the council should have to show that the costs incurred in processing a new vehicle licence application are sufficient to justify to fee charged. It seems unlikely that there are costs incurred in relation to a new licence as compared to a renewal to justify the extra fee.


This information is extremely valuable to me because in the case of Edinburgh they intentionally failed to itemise the disrepancy in the huge difference between the initial grant and yearly renewal. The huge difference in grant and yearly renewal can also be seen in some other Scottish authorities.

I believe Edinburgh's Initial grant is set to increase to around 1250 pounds later this year, which means an increase of practically 50%. In other industries license costs are standard throughout the country and there is no unearthly reason why taxi licenses shouldn't be standard or issued by the same organisation that issues PSV licenses.

In fact there is no reason why councils should have anything whatsoever to do with Taxi licensing because Taxi licensing could be adequetly administered by PSV Transport Regulators.

Councils try and justify their license fees by citing administration costs but this situation will be never ending until such time we get our act together and divest them of their Taxi licensing powers.

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:30 pm 
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Location: London
Hello JD, I think at this moment, it may be an appropriate time to examine the substance of the licences that these LA's are issuing. As I have continually pointed out, the DVLA madatory licences assigns the entitlement of a vehicle owner to use that vehicle on the public road - what entitlements (if any) does a vehicle keeper receive by taking up one of these licences. GRANTED by these LA's?
Regards,
Jeff


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:56 pm 
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Location: Glasgow area
Here is a list of all the fees here in Renfrewshire (Paisley & Glasgow Airport)

Taxi and Private Hire Licensing Fees

New Grant Fee
Taxi or Private Hire Car Licence £150
Taxi or Private Hire Driver Licence £39
Temporary Licence £69

Renewal Fee
Taxi or Private Hire Car Licence £190
Taxi or Private Hire Driver Licence £78

Miscellaneous Fee
Variation of licence (eg substitution of vehicle for taxis and private hire cars) £20
Surrender and Re-issue of Taxi Licence £52
One Taxi Plate £22
Two Taxi Plates £44
Private Hire Plate (with stickers) £27
Private Hire Stickers only £5
Bracket £5
Duplicate Licence £20
Variation of licence £47

Vehicle Inspection Fees (set by the Department of Planning and Transport) Fee
Combined MOT and inspection £52
Taxi Inspection £36
Private Hire Inspection £29
Retest (private hire car or taxi) £17
Taxi Meter Test £8

_________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_around_the_world


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:52 pm 
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Scottish Taxi Operator initial Granting fees in order of most expensive.

Edinburgh City council is currently the most expensive licensing authority in the United kingdom in respect of initial application for a Taxi operators license.

Edinburgh's initial application fee is 491.00 pounds higher than North Ayrshire which is the second highest at 384.00 pounds and a massive 784.70 pounds higher than the lowest council which is the Western Isles.

This will increase to 891.00 pounds over North Ayrshire when the Taxi operator grant rises to 1250 later this year and again a massive 1,184.70 over the Western Isles.

The same costs attributed to Taxi operator applications also relate to Edinburgh private hire vehicles and therefore it also makes Edinburgh private hire vehicles the most expensive in the UK for initial applications.

The officer who replied to Jim Taylors letter in respect of these Edinburgh application fees made the fatal error of citing some English Taxi proprietor fees but obviously the person in question doesn't realise that we in England and Wales do not have to submit a fee in order to apply for a hackney carriage proprietor license in those authorities that restrict numbers. However that is not the case in Scotland but one observation I did notice about the Scottish licence grant system and that is that Angus council has a system where you submit an initial lodging fee £87.00 and this will determine if you are eligible to be granted a license. It would seem to me that such a system would be far better than paying exorbitant sums of money to achieve the same purpose.
...........................................................................

Taxi vehicle license.

1. Edinburgh city council 1 year Grant 875.00 Increasing to 1250.00 later this year. Renewal 150.00

2. North Ayrshire council 1 year 384.00 test inclusive 3 years Renewal 619.00 test inclusive

3. Aberdeen Council 1 year Grant 364.00 Renewal 199.00

4. Shetland islands council 1 year grant 355.00. 1 year renewal 80.00 + test fee 34.66

5. West Lothian council 1 year grant 306.00 renewal 277.00

6. Inverclyde council 1 year 163.50 plus test 110.50 = 274.00

7. Midlothian council 1 year First grant 256.00 Renewal 212.00

8. Angus Council Grant 1 Year £250.00 Renewal £210.00. lodging fee £87.00.

9. Perth & Kinross council 1 year 240.00 yearly test fee 90.00

10. Moray council 1 year 238.00 including test

11. Falkirk 1 year grant 220.00 Renewal 110.00 Test 32.00 six Monthly.

12. Dundee 1 year 170.00

13. Scottish Borders licensing fees. 3 years Grant of Licence £486.00 payable in 3 annual instalments of £162

14. Aberdeenshire council 1 year Grant and Renewal 150.00

15. Renfrewshire council 1 year Grant £150.00. 2 year Renewal £190.00 Test £36.00 Combined MOT and inspection £52.00

16. North Lanarkshire council 3 year Grant £406 Renewal £357

17. East Ayrshire Council 3 years Grant and Renewal 405.00

18. Argyll & Bute 3 years 360.00

19. Glasgow 1 year 149.00 2 years 267.00 3 years 357.00

20. Fife 1 year 147.00 3 years 356.00

21. West Dunbartonshire council 3 years Grant or Renewal 398.00

22. East Lothian 1 year 120.00

23. South Ayrshire council 1 year £340.00 plus annual inspection £120.00

24. Orkney council 1 year Grant or Renewal 113.00

25. Highland Council 3 years Grant and renewal 291.00 Yearly Vehicle test 65.00

26. EAST RENFREWSHIRE COUNCIL 3 years 280.00

27. East Dunbartonshire 3 years 275.00

28. Stirling council 1 year Grant and Renewal 93.00 Test fee currently 60.00 increasing to 72.00 shortly.

29. Dumfries and Galloway council 3 years Grant and Renewal 252.00

30. Clackmannanshire Council 1 year Grant and Renewal 81.00 + test fee possibly 35.00

31. South Lanarkshire council 4 zones 3 year Grant and renewal 329.00

32. Western isles council 3 years Grant including first year test 196.00 Renewal 3 years 90.00

.....................................................


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:43 pm 
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The list of scottish licensing fees has been finalised if anyone spots any inaccuracies please let me know.


Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:49 pm 
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Taxi Driver License Fees in Scotland. Many of these licence fees are due to increase in the first quarter of this year so if there are any discrepancies please let me know
.....................................

Aberdeen Council.

Driver license.
1 year Grant 40.00 Renewal 33.00
...............................

Aberdeenshire Council.

Driver license.
3 years 40.00
................................

Angus Council

Driver license.
1 year New licence and drivers aged "over 65 £92.00 Renewal £77.00
3 years £195.00 drivers under 65
………………………………………………………

Argyll & Bute

Driver license.
3 years 90.00
……………………………………..

Clackmannanshire Council

Driver license.
1 year 81.00
………………………………………

Dumfries and Galloway council

Driver license.
3 years Grant and Renewal 77.00
……………………………………………

Dundee.

Driver license.
1 year 75.00 Renewal 65.00
……………………………………

East Ayrshire Council

Driver license.
3 years Renewal 121.00 Grant 168
……………………………………….

East Dunbartonshire

Driver license.
3 years 125.00
……………………………………..

East Lothian

Driver license.
1 year 30.00
……………………………………….

EAST RENFREWSHIRE COUNCIL

Taxi Driver license.
3 years 160.00
..................................

Edinburgh city council

Driver license.
1 year 42.00 New Driver
3 years 90.00 Renewal
……………………………………………

Falkirk

Driver license.
1 year Grant 181.30 Renewal 88.00
……………………………………..

Fife

Driver license.
1 year 37.00
3 years 93.00
……………………………….

Glasgow.

Driver license.
1 year 60.00
2 years 107.00
3 years 145.00

Knowledge test 20.00
………………………………………..

Highland Council

Driver license.
3 years 187.00
……………………………..

Inverclyde council

Driver license.
1 year 35.00
……………………………………

Midlothian council

Driver license.
1 year First application 68.00 Renewal 33.00
……………………………………

Moray council

Driver license.
1 year First application 45.00 Renewal 25.00
………………………………

North Ayrshire council

Driver license.
3 years 165.00
……………………………………

North Lanarkshire council

Driver license.
3 years £146 Renewal £134
…………………………………..

Orkney council

Driver license.
1 year 36.00
3 years 100.00
……………………………..

Perth & Kinross council

Driver license.
1 year 80.00 non refundable
3 years 125.00
…………………………………………..

Renfrewshire council

Driver license.
1 year New Grant £39.00
2 year Renewal £78.00
………………………………..

Scottish Borders licensing fees.

Driver license.
1 year 69.00
………………………………………………

Shetland islands council

Driver license.
3 years 40.00
………………………………..

South Ayrshire council

Driver license.
3 year £145.00
………………………………..

South Lanarkshire council

Driver license.
3 year grant 130.00 renewal 120.00
………………………………..

Stirling council

Driver license.
1 year Grant 63.00
Renewal 63.00
………………………………..

West Dunbartonshire council

Driver license.
1 year 176.00
………………………………..

West Lothian council

Driver license.
3 years Grant 142.00 Renewal 120.00
………………………………..

Western isles council

Driver license.
3 years grant 80.00
renewal 60.00
……………………………………….


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 Post subject: Drivers Licenses
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:21 pm 
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Location: SOMEWHERE IN SCOTLAND
WEST DUNBARTONSHIRE COUNCIL is divided into zones, you have dunbarton taxis which consists mostly of private vehicles and Clydebank Taxis which are all purpose built vehicles(metros,eurocabs,hackneycabs,fiat doblos)Clydebank Taxi Driver Licence (BADGE)is the dearest in Scotland.


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 Post subject: Re: Drivers Licenses
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:30 pm 
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naviman wrote:
WEST DUNBARTONSHIRE COUNCIL is divided into zones, you have dunbarton taxis which consists mostly of private vehicles and Clydebank Taxis which are all purpose built vehicles(metros,eurocabs,hackneycabs,fiat doblos)Clydebank Taxi Driver Licence (BADGE)is the dearest in Scotland.


It is not the only council that is divided into taxi zones, but are you suggesting the cost of a Taxi badge is different in the Clydebank zone than the vale of leven zone, because the licensing department told me they were the same? And that goes for the other zoned councils. However, if the two zones are different in price then perhpas you can tell me what the other zone charges so I can confirm it with the council on Monday?

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:51 pm 
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Location: Glasgow area
My favourite of the Renfrewshire fees is -

Surrender and Re-issue of Taxi Licence £52

Current taxi licence holders may apply for a surrender and reissue of their licence. Current policy dictates that the current licence holder has held their taxi licence for a period not less than 5 years. The proposed licence holder must have held a taxi driver licence for a period not less than 2 years. The application form below can be downloaded, completed and returned to the licensing office with the appropriate application fee.

_________________
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:16 pm 
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Can anyone tell me which councils in Scotland have a system of quantity controls and which don't?

I know Glasgow and Edinburgh have controls and I think renfrewshire but how many others?

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:17 pm 
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Unrestricted

1 Aberdeen city
2 Aberdeenshire
3 Angus 4 zones
4 Argyll and Bute
5 Dundee
6 East Lothian
7 East Renfrewshire
8 Falkirk
9 Highland
10 Moray
11 Orkney
12 Scottish borders
13 South Ayrshire
14 Western isles

Restricted

1 Clackmannanshire yes.
2 Dumfries and Galloway yes
3 East Ayrshire yes
4 Edinburgh yes
5 Fife yes
6 Glasgow city yes
7 Inverclyde yes
8 Midlothian yes
9 North Ayrshire 6 zones all restricted yes
10 North Lanarkshire yes 3 zones
11 Renfrewshire yes
12 Shetland islands yes
13 Stirling yes
14 West Dunbartonshire yes 2 zones restricted
15 West Lothian yes

Mixed

1 East Dunbartonshire 2 zones 1 restricted I unrestricted
2 Perth & Kinross yes several small zones only 1 restricted
3 South Lanarkshire 4 zones 3 restricted 1 unrestricted

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:20 pm 
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I take it the Scottish Parliament never got around to getting them to review quotas as per down here? [-X

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:41 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I take it the Scottish Parliament never got around to getting them to review quotas as per down here? [-X


Nope, there seems to be a lot of zoning in Scotland, in fact One place, apart from the major town centre zone has several zones all based on a 5 mile radius.

Regards

JD


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