Taxi Driver Online

Young left stranded by soaring bus fares, MPs warn



SPIRALLING bus fares and cuts to rural and late-night routes across Yorkshire are leaving young people stranded and unable to get to training courses and job interviews, MPs have warned.

Labour politicians from across the region secured a Parliamentary debate to highlight the difficulties faced by young people, as subsidised routes are cut back due to the public spending squeeze while fares continue to soar.

The Government has cut grants to local councils by around a quarter since 2010, and many have responded by reducing the amount they spend propping up bus services that private operators do not consider profitable.

Angela Smith, the MP for Pen-istone and Stocksbridge, said: “It is often the cuts least talked about that do the greatest damage.

“The combined cuts have resulted in the removal of £500m from support for bus services.

“To make matters worse, the cost of catching a bus has increased by double the rate of inflation in the past year alone.”

Ms Smith warned that for many, “the choice is to catch a bus, or to stay put and not travel at all”.

She said: “The option of private transport still does not exist for many of the elderly, the young, the disabled and the unemployed.

“For those people, the bus is essential for getting to the shops, to school, to training, to work or even to that important job interview.”

Warning of the impact in rural areas, she added: “If the cuts continue, it will become harder and harder for many communities to sustain the social mix that is essential to maintaining the lifeblood of our rural areas.

“If those who cannot afford private transport have to move out of their villages, all we will have left is lifeless commuter belts.”

Other MPs warned of the impact of high fares in Yorkshire’s towns and cities.

Fabian Hamilton, the MP for Leeds North East, spoke of bus operator First’s “virtual monopoly” on services in Leeds, Bradford and Wakefield which has developed since the market was deregulated.

“What was once a public service had become a cash generator, and the travelling public were left to pay the cost of ever-increasing fares,” he said.

Rotherham MP Sarah Champion spoke of the problems faced by cash-strapped students, many of whom “choose not to travel by bus due to the cost”.

She said: “During the day that’s fine. But at night, I am concerned.

“I worry about the safety of students and young people forced to walk in the dark across town, or a considerable distance on rural lanes because they cannot afford a bus fare, or there is no bus for them to catch.”

But Transport Minister Norman Baker said it was down to individual councils to decide how much to spend on local bus services, and whether to offer extra concessions for young people.

“Local government finance continues to be challenging, but it is still disappointing that in a few areas, councils have responded by taking the axe to local bus services,” he said. “I deplore that.

“A few councils have taken an almost slash-and-burn approach, while others, I am happy to say, have been more considerate.”

Mr Baker dismissed criticism of the deregulated bus market, pointing out that Labour “had 13 years to reintroduce whatever it wanted, and did not do so”.

“The overall bus mileage in England fell by just one per cent between 2010-11 and 2011-12,” he added.

“I regret any fall in mileage, but one per cent is not Armageddon.”

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at- ... -1-5591914

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

The joys of deregulation at it's finest



Another wonderful flaw in the free market thinking



I think it's the elderly and the young that suffer mostly, although I'm not sure where the young are going without their parents There are usually free transport options available for the disabled and elderly, but, if there isn't I'm sure somebody will sort some 'non profit' scheme out if they ask them nicely and point out that it's 'non profit' in name only The unemployed should walk, it's not like they don't have the time.



They must do the same as the unemployed, and walk everywhere. It's no great thing to have to walk, the problem with our society is we can be somewhat lazy now and the thought of having to walk anywhere is a bit of a culture shock.



Deciding on how much to spend and actually having the amount decided are two different things entirely. However if the think tanks had actually thought of the consequences properly and thoughtfully prior to deregulation then perhaps they wouldn't be having these problems.

Perhaps the solution would have been better if the councils had tendered in block routes for the provision of buses e.g routes a,b,c and d available, a, b and c are profitable but d not so much but you can't run the first three if you don't run the last one at a cost to the company rather than at a cost to the taxpayer. If this had been the case the government cuts wouldn't have affected the transport so much.

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

Shock horror gasp! Bus fares GOING UP? Haven't these MPs heard that fuel prices have gone up; Bus Service Operators Grant has gone down by 20%; bus companies have to buy super low floor buses at £230,000 or more per bus to cope with disability regulations; they have to have buses with lower emissions; they have to pay for computerised ticketing and advanced bus stop information.

FFS, SOMEONE has to pay for it! Seniors get free travel; the bus companies have to go through a lengthy and complex process to get their concessionary fares refunded from the councils, this has a knock-on effect on their cash flow as it takes up to a year to get that back.

Why do people think that buses are any different to providing a taxi service, a chemist shop or a supermarket? They all seem to think "the council" pays for them. The council doesn't. There's 2 basic types of bus services, a commercial service, whichj is provided at the risk of the operator, First Group, Stagecoach or Fred's Coaches round the corner. Unless the route is not profitable, it won't survive. The other type of bus service is that which is deemed "socially neccesary", the route that provides a link round rural villages or evening services which are essential but don't pay their way.

These routes are tendered in much the same way as home to school taxi routes are tendered. Councils cannot tender "commercial" routes. So the idea that a company can bid for a couple of unprofitable routes if they get "given2 a commercial route just isn't possible.

In my area (Kent), "the council" subsidises various rural services. Those that cost more than £20 per passenger journey have been withdrawn. Figures show that some of these routes cost up to £46 per passenger journey to provide! They also have to pay the operators for their senior citizens passes as well as student travel schemes anbd siabled passes.

My local bus company, Stagecoach East Kent raised fares recently, but have kept their maximum fare at about £5.60 return with a weekly ticket at about £18. For instance you can go from Hasting to Ramsgate and back, a distance of nearly 100 miles for £5.60 by bus. I'm sure operators in other areas have similar fare deals, so in my view the MPs are scaremongering as usual!

Privatisation hasn't been all it was made out to be. If we go back to the pre-privatisation days we had the Tilling Group and British Electric Traction Group running the majority of buses outside the towns, plus most town ran their own town services. when it went deregulated, these 2 groups were sold to many smaller companies, who in turn were taken over so we now have 5 or 6 big combines we have today.

WTF is the MP griping about? Bus services these days are far better than they were in the 1970's. They don't cost a fortune in subsidies (except in London) and the majority of buses are less than 10 years old. It's always a shame when any bus service is withdrawn, but it will usually be through lack of use.

yeah toots you communist^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^what he said.

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Of course, the privatised (and subsidised) bus service was investigated by the competition commission.

By 1995 Stagecoach had been referred to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission (MMC) more times than any other British firm.

The OFT began its market study in March 2009. The OFT’s study has identified a number of features of local bus markets that could prevent, restrict or distort competition in the sector. These include:

a situation where the majority of local routes are operated by a small number of large players. The OFT found that nearly two-thirds of services are controlled by the large national groups – Arriva, FirstGroup, Go-Ahead and Stagecoach;

higher fares in areas where operators with a strong market position do not face significant competition;

many complaints alleging predatory behavior by incumbent operators designed to eliminate competition from new entrants. In 2008, the OFT ruled that Cardiff Bus had abused a dominant position and forced a smaller operator out of the market; and low numbers of bids for tendered services, with just one bidder for a quarter of services.

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

There is dozens of such routes in our rural area, they are no more than ghost buses for the most part with just the driver and 50 empty seats criss crossing the shire.

The LA is looking to shore this service up with even more smaller vehicles on a needs basis where the customer has to book a pickup a day in advance, the problem is that there is no guarantee that you would get customers everyday or even if you did they might just travel a small part of the route, and as you tender a price per passenger mile it means you might put a vehicle and driver on standby and have them never turn a wheel for days. It's putting all the risk on the guy that tendered for the work.

Worse still is that although a four seater vehicle may acceptable it needs to have a ticketing machine, a sign saying the bus route on it in big bus sized lettering. A big ask for a small vehicle that would be of little use for anything else.

Then you require a bus service operators licence and to fill in few hundred sheets of applications, Including every type of policy imaginable in order to meet the minimum requirements.

All that would cost a fortune and never be recouped.

So, why can't the LA just go for the easier cheaper option of plugging the local Taxis or PH's and get rid of their Bus fixation once and for all.

Bus fares have gone up in the Borders, in Galashiels it now costs £1. 50 per adult and £1.00 per child over 5, I am actually cheaper if 4 adults or if 4 kids get in, they get to there door for around £4.00

yes thank to driver like you we are now dragged down to poverty fare keeping on about discount this and discount that if 5 more driver like you moved in you be crying in your tea because the bottom of the bucket doesnt cut to well when there are more than one mouth to feed

Round here there's been a few bus wars, one being with Stagecoach and a Company called Delta Dart a few years ago, Delta Dart introduced the direct Nottingham route from Mansfield for £1.50, it was a big hitter for them with a full bus every 30 minutes, what did Stagecoach do? They put a free bus on 5 miutes either side of the Delta Dart one meaning the Delta Dart was running empty.

They didn't last long and when they went under Stagecoach bumped thier prices up.

De regulation at it's best.

Stagecoach was orifginally investigated by the MMC many years ago when they started free bus services running a munite in front of Darlington Corportation buses. DC's buses lasted about 3 weeks then the cash ran out. since then such predatory practices have been outlawed.

Meanwhile, if any cab operator wants to start a registered local bus service, they can do so. It isn't too onerous to register, but the service has to run as advertised; you have to give 56 days notice before the service starts, and you have to give 56 days to stop the service. Separate fares have to be charged, but at least you can claim BSOG and get the right to use bus lanes! You don't have to put bus size lettering on your vehicle, but have to carry a small sign saying it's a bus and the route number.

There was a member on here some years ago called Yorkie, he started a Taxi bus service, the last time I was talking to him he was doing really well, mind you that was 5-6 years ago I've not heard anything of him since.

But if you Don't know how Big or Small Galashiels is how can you infer that his price is to low...

What is the relevance of how big or small it is,if your undercutting every other taxi your a c*unt

The official population of Gala is 14300, spread out over 3.5 miles, whats the population of Blackpool if you discount the holiday trade, that we never get, so it has every relevance

It's called competition. Simples. It's why Sainsburys is cheaper than Mr.Patel's corner shop. Same with the bus or taxi business. Bigger can always buy stuff in far cheaper.

The big bus operators "hedge" their fuel by buying well in advance; then if you're buying 2million litres a week it's far cheaper than me filling my bus with 200 litres a week. Like the big cab operators. If they can "buy" drivers' services for 20p a mile they will.

Bus privatisation is following the law of unforseen consequences. TfL used to have around 50 operators at one time. that's been whittled down to less than 10 now, all big players. I was one of them 15 years ago, but couldn't compete on the sheer scale of things.