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 Post subject: fare formula?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:53 pm 
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Do any councils have a formula for working out periodic fare increases without the drivers having to request a review?

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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:23 am 
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grandad wrote:
Do any councils have a formula for working out periodic fare increases without the drivers having to request a review?

For Private hire ???

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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:45 am 
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A lot of councils used to use the tfl fare increase, they used this method because it was based on actual taxi costs, insurance, fuel, repairs ect. So if tfl increased fares by 2% they increased there’s by 2%.a lot of councils got fed up with the trade keep arguing about fare increases so they agreed to follow tfl each year. Simples so long as your not to far behind already.


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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:56 am 
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MR T wrote:
grandad wrote:
Do any councils have a formula for working out periodic fare increases without the drivers having to request a review?

For Private hire ???

No, for Hackney. I am trying to help the drivers with a fare review and we have been discussing with licensing the use of a formula to allow for regular reviews of the tariff at say 3 yearly intervals without the drivers having to apply every time.

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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:03 pm 
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grandad wrote:
MR T wrote:
grandad wrote:
Do any councils have a formula for working out periodic fare increases without the drivers having to request a review?

For Private hire ???

No, for Hackney. I am trying to help the drivers with a fare review and we have been discussing with licensing the use of a formula to allow for regular reviews of the tariff at say 3 yearly intervals without the drivers having to apply every time.

Not sure a formula would help getting a policy of 3 yearly reviews, a fare formula will only be of use to set the proposal not the timing.

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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:53 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
MR T wrote:
grandad wrote:
Do any councils have a formula for working out periodic fare increases without the drivers having to request a review?

For Private hire ???

No, for Hackney. I am trying to help the drivers with a fare review and we have been discussing with licensing the use of a formula to allow for regular reviews of the tariff at say 3 yearly intervals without the drivers having to apply every time.

Not sure a formula would help getting a policy of 3 yearly reviews, a fare formula will only be of use to set the proposal not the timing.



Councils review fees every 12 months so there is no reason why tariffs should not be reviewed every 12 months.


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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:18 pm 
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heathcote wrote:


Councils review fees every 12 months so there is no reason why tariffs should not be reviewed every 12 months.
I think the drivers were thinking that a very small rise every year was not warranted due to cost of changing the meters but having now seen what they want to propose I am dumbfounded. The last rise was in 2014 and they are asking for a rise of almost nothing and in the case of vehicles from 5 to 8 passengers will get an extra 10 pence per mile in the daytime and no change at all on the night rate. They are asking for the 4 passenger rate to go up 50 pence on flagfall and 10 pence per mile in the day time and just 50 pence on the flagfall and no increase in the mile rate for the night time.

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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:47 am 
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How on earth can anyone exist on 2014 prices 7 years later? dines't anyone pay for the increased price of fuel/insurance/road tax? No wonder almost everyone in the industry is skint.

It seems to me that most drivers seem content to pay to carry other people around as they're making a loss on almost every job.

I'm glad I got out of the race to the bottom a few years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:01 am 
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roythebus wrote:
How on earth can anyone exist on 2014 prices 7 years later? dines't anyone pay for the increased price of fuel/insurance/road tax? No wonder almost everyone in the industry is skint.

It seems to me that most drivers seem content to pay to carry other people around as they're making a loss on almost every job.

I'm glad I got out of the race to the bottom a few years ago.

Exactly Roy,
Last year a request was made for a review based on the RPI change since 2014 and this would have gone through but for errors made by the licensing officer who dealt with it. This was when we changed all our vehicles to private hire and implemented the change unilaterally. The rise that is being put forward this year is pitiful and for vehicles when carrying 5 or more passengers, does not change. The person who has sent the request in runs a 4 seat vehicle and isn't bothered about anyone else. We also had a convention that the night rate was 1.25 of the day rate, the 5 or more passenger day rate was 1.5 of the normal day rate and at night it was 2.0 of the normal day rate. With this proposal that convention has gone out of the window. I offered to help them with doing a properly evidenced review but this chap is not interested in talking to me about it even though the licensing officer and some of the drivers have suggested that he should. Still, as it doesn't effect our company I have decided to let him get on with it and if the other drivers can't be bothered then I wont be.

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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:53 pm 
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You don't need anyone's permission to put forward a fare review.

Councillors can choose between more than one proposal.

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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:22 am 
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Sussex wrote:
You don't need anyone's permission to put forward a fare review.

Councillors can choose between more than one proposal.

I know that but none of them can be bothered or have the wherewithal to be able to back up their request with evidence. Apparently, fare reviews here no longer go before Councillors, they are dealt with by delegated authority. I am not sure that this is legal but I am not permitted to discuss such things at meetings.

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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:08 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Apparently, fare reviews here no longer go before Councillors, they are dealt with by delegated authority. I am not sure that this is legal but I am not permitted to discuss such things at meetings.

Well it's not legal, and surely an elected official should be the first to point out illegalities at a council. :-k

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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:39 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
Apparently, fare reviews here no longer go before Councillors, they are dealt with by delegated authority. I am not sure that this is legal but I am not permitted to discuss such things at meetings.

Well it's not legal, and surely an elected official should be the first to point out illegalities at a council. :-k

I will be mentioning it but like I say, I can't discuss taxi issues at meetings, conflict of interest and all that.

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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:55 pm 
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But there is nothing stopping anyone asking the council to adhere to the law of the land.

Ask the licensing manager to take some external legal advice, maybe from the Institute of Licensing.

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 Post subject: Re: fare formula?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:55 pm 
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Surely councils can't set fares for private hire cars anyway? If PH operators agree a fares structure that is against the various anti-competition laws and could fined the owners being heavily fined.

If it's any help, a few years back I posted a spreadsheet on here which would help work out the running costs of cars. I've lost the original, but it was based on a formula given to me by Leon Daniels the former head of TfL when he was involved with running a large private bus company. It showed that tyre wear on my car cost 0.44p per mile! Not a vast amount, but how many of you worry about the number of small things that wear out, all the 0.44p's soon add up.


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