Taxi Driver Online

Who's saying they will remain independent?

They could band together to join a cab-call circuit, or start up their own proper circuit.

Having the freedom of plying opens up a number of avenues.

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IDFIMH

Indeedy they can, I've been down that road though already, I figured I could start up a 100 unit strong fleet overnight, it was all going well I had it all worked out cost wise so I could charge each car about £50 pw to cover a proper call team in the office, and then I remembered I would be dealing with a rotational staff base that would be too unstable to trust.

I saw it happen years ago as well, at the time the idea was that there was one company getting too large and some of the others merged to be able to rival it, as that company used the Cabmaster system of the day, 15 yrs ago and seemed to suffer from jammed air for an hour or so every Friday and Saturday at 8pm on the dot, a fleet that numbered around 130 cars dropped to around 50 within a month, you can guess where the other 80 cars went to can't you and that the now biggest firm ended up getting most of the other firms contract drivers and assets, that is how fickle cabbies can be, I even tried to pick up the old firms premises to do a ground up rebuild but would've had to have taken a partner that I didn't want at the time, so I bought the plate instead, in hindsight I'm glad it went that way because I didn't need all the hassle that would've gone with it.

So although that option is there it's probably not a good option risk wise if you are putting up the cash, plus now we have the Asians to contend with, they recently set up their own firm with a bargain £20 pw radio charge, which to me you just can't compete with in any shape or form.

MY point isn't that all drivers must or will go independent hackney carriage, or that they should or shouldn't stay with their existing PH operator, but that they should decide for themselves.

Is that asking too much?

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IDFIMH

Nope not at all, but the reality between the theory and the reality is a very wide berth.

It's not my intention to prevent people from buying a car and perhaps new is a little harsh. Perhaps it should be the same as the taxis here and not more than 3 years old on first license. What one has to remember is that it's an investment and if looked after will earn it's keep

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

Is the UK's "taxi" trade so different from everywhere else in the rest of the world? Are we the only western country with a 2 tier system? I seem to recall that in New York you cannot phone for a "taxi" as a previous mayor banned the use of radios or desptach systems etc. If you want a taxi, you go to the street and hail one. If you want to order a car by phone, you get a "black car" or limo.

Are there any places elsewhere in Europe with a system we could look at and learn lessons from or are the problems of the UK trade pretty universal?

I am non concious of any other country having mandatory WAV's on ranks, unless of course someone knows differently.

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Nobody told me to use my initiative. To err is human to arr is pirate.

There is no lesson to be learned tbh, it's a simple system, if you are out and about and want to get in a cab at that moment the Hack is there to provide that service, if you are buried indoors or live remote to traffic you ring PH and they come get you, it's only since PH took upon itself to THINK it is the taxi there have been problems.

Lets look at it that we do away with a Hack system, this means that you now have to phone for a car and wait for it to arrive, flip it over and imagine you do away with PH, you now have cars littered everywhere and there's still no guarantee you will find one near you when you need one.

If everyone stuck to what their job title is there would be no problem, but they don't, and add in the green eyes that think a street trader stall is ok to sell on as a business but a hack license isn't and it becomes obvious that there is more than just a little bit of jealously motivating de-reg advocates who want in but don't want to invest to get in without realising that no plate value = saturation and poor wages.

Doom, I don't disagree with anything you say there.Clearly there is an opportunity for improvement for all concerned if new legislation can get around most of the problems of the exiting legislation.

Having worked with the trade in my "day job" for almost 25 years, I have seen the trade have good times and bad times. I have to say I think it is now the worst I can recall based on what driver clients tell me. I only got my PH badge last December so am not qualified to make really informed observations from the "inside", but I am starting to form opinions.

I only drive part time on Friday nights and Sunday mornings. I took twice as much money and did twice as many jobs on Sunday morning as I did Friday night for the same number of hours worked. On Sunday as far as I could tell from the datahead there were only 10 of our cars out. There were about 80 on Friday night. The ladies I take to church don't swear, smell of booze and fags or quibble about the fare. Nice!

I was looking at some French taxi trade websites (anorak!) and it seems their system has both national and local controls. If I understand it correctly the national government has set a rule that the number of taxis licensed by their equivilant of an LA is based on the population for that LA. I think it was something like, for example, 50 pates for an LA with a population of 100000. Again, as far as I can tell, they do not have a 2 tier system, just "taxis". Plates are sold in much the same way as here. Maybe new legislation should look at the option of restricting plate issue on a similar basis here, or maybe a limit of say 3 PH plates to every Hackney plate.

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Nobody told me to use my initiative. To err is human to arr is pirate.

Well mate, I've been at it 25 years, and if you have only recently got a badge you are a fast learner.

We have 200k of heads here, and 250 hacks and 999 PH to service them with, and as you said in your 3-1, 50 per 100k thing the balance isn't realistic.

There is a lot to be said for having to deal with Granny Smith rather than Tosher Jones in the car.

The improvement needs to come in the ways of fair competition i.e end of fare charts and set your own, so it's meter for all council sets the rate.

Driver standard needs looking at.

Car quality is another

And one man one plate needs to be rigidly enforced, it's a way for a man to make a living, not so some fat lazy speculator can sit at home watching a fleet of slaves try to get his payin each week.

Doom I don't think you were on the forum when I joined. I gather you had an absence for a while. Whilst I have only held a badge since last December, in my "day job" as an insurance broker, I have dealt with the trade for over 20 years. Just to recap, at outset I did say I would not disclose the insurance brokerage I work for nor would I ever advertise but I would happily try to answer any questions if I could.

Anyway, my insurance job has taken me to many towns and cities and it still surprises me how the trade can differ so much from town to town and area to area. The taxi and PH trade has been very good to me over the years and I am proud to been involved in it at an arms length until I got my badge but now a bit more hands on driving PH as well part time.

I think there is much wrong with the current system as do most of us and I might get my act together to put forward a list of discussion points. However the one this I am not so sure about is the one man one plate idea. There is without question some unpleasant people out there who hold a bunch of plates. However, I deal with a good number of operators who own fleets of cars and hold the plates who are honest, honourable and fair to their drivers. Indeed I talk to drivers who say they like the renting arrangement, it suits them because they have no worries other than just doing the driving and collecting the fares. Maybe I'm just lucky! From a personal viewpoint, one man one plate would probably make it difficult for me to get a part time drive. I'm learning the trade from the inside but could walk away at any time if I chose to. I won't cos I do really enjoy it.

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Nobody told me to use my initiative. To err is human to arr is pirate.

I see your point about the barons, but it's out of hand when fares are driven low and the only drivers who will work for that are then forced to drive like a racing driver and complete 15 hour shifts just to pay in, a compromise might be a limit that allows for more than one plate but not more than say 10 unless you are a PH firm owner and can justify the need for company cars, that should keep the speculators out as it won't pay enough for the risk, I wouldn't mind if they could prove the work is there for the cab head numbers, but what happens is they keep putting on cars, going to Eastern Europe to mug drivers with earnings lies and then the driver then thinks it's his right to use a PHC as a Hack, in the days of 99% British drivers you had a % that would still flag, but now it's out of hand and the migrant driver plays the me no understand card when caught out, plus it's not the same for someone who has a morale allegiance to a country to one who thinks oh well if I get caught I'll just go back home.

Locally it's a sham, you have PH on a fare scale without a meter, and that fare scale is about 12 years out of date, yet to work for the PH firm it's 2011 money, have to buy uniforms, lose discount on accounts and do set rates that barely cover the running costs, and all the while someone else sits there pulling in £50k pw, if you are going to provide a cheap service then surely that should extend to the drivers as well, you can't charge for a Ferrari and supply a Mondeo it's just not right.

I'd like to have this conversation again in 6 years time, by then you will be relatively aware of what goes on and you will also have other opinions also, right now you are still in what is known as keen mode, the punters,operators and costs haven't had time to ruffle you up yet, but they will, and please don't see that as a criticism on you, it's just how it ends up, shelf life of a non natural born cabby is 3 years, you may or may not be a NBC, too early to tell yet

They wouldn't, it takes 3 years to do the Knowledge, and if the one tier system was for Taxis, then the London Knowledge would be required, plus a taxi that conforms to the COF.

If this one tier taxi system ever arrived, I'd be retired within the year with my extra takings the minicab void would make me!

And that's the reason the one-tier system will never happen.

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IDFIMH

You are bang on again there Doom, but I wonder if we can only blame ourselves? There are many instances in our history where we as a nation have decided at certain times certain jobs are not for us to do and we then allow "guest" workers to fill the void. The guest workers graft and improve their lot and the next thing we know they are vacating the void in the labour force they once filled, move up the occupational ladder and the next lot come in.

In Stoke Poges Lane and Spackmans Way, Slough, you will find a plethora of PH drivers of Pakistani origin. Now, they could be driving a Tuk Tuk in Islamabad or an 05 Plate E Class Merc to and from Heathrow.

You may recall in the '50's and '60's London Transport brought in ship loads of people from the West Indies to crew the buses because they couldn't get Londoners to do the job because of low pay. Now the reason the pay was low was because LT weren't allowed to charge fares that could in turn generate a reasonable income for their staff. I fear as a nation we always want the cheapest, not neccessarily the best value for money. Give a Brit £50 to spend on clothes and he'll go to Primark and buy 6 pairs of trackies. Give £50 to his French/German/Italian equivilant, he'll buy a nice tie.

I do agree I am still very much a novice in terms of personal experiences as a driver. I think I am lucky however in that having dealt with the trade over so many years I have a better understanding that most who are getting a badge for the first time. Being in insurance I have had to deal with the most awful accident cirmstances, family issues etc. I have heard so many stories of people having hard times in the business. But it is fair to say so far it has been at arms length.

More later on WAV's. My Sunday morning church ladies hate them! Much prefer a nice comfortable car.

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Nobody told me to use my initiative. To err is human to arr is pirate.