Taxi Driver Online

Thought this was maybe just an extension of yesterday's Aberdeen Press & Journal article - the P&J and Dundee's Courier are both published by DC Thomson, and in fact this article in the Courier is co-authored by the journalist Mr Gossip who wrote yesterday's piece

But there is a reasonable amount of stuff unique to Dundee, hence a new thread...

But although anyone who knows the trade will know what's being said here, it's misleading and confusing to casual readers.

For a start, the Unite rep says all new 'private vehicles' have to be electric in Dundee - that makes it sound like private cars used by the public rather than plated vehicles, but of course obviously he means PHVs.

He then witters on about 'taxi' rules etc, so the whole thing is technically incorrect and to that extent just confuses everything. However, the point he makes about the council setting the rules, basically, is sound - at least it makes it clear that the whole thing isn't up to Uber to decide itself, which is the impression some people seem to have. Again, that's kind of consistent with the perception that Uber is a totally different beast to the rest of the licensed trade, when we all know it isn't.


Uber set to apply for Dundee taxi licence

The firm is in talks about moving into Tayside for the first time.

By James Simpson and Alastair Gossip

Global taxi giant Uber is set to apply for a licence to operate in Dundee.

The firm already operates in 59 towns and cities across the UK – but has yet to make its way into Tayside.

Now Uber has confirmed to The Courier its intention to apply for a licence to run vehicles in Dundee.

Talks are ongoing over Uber moving into Dundee, but the firm is not saying any more at this stage.

It comes after similar plans for Aberdeen emerged this week.

Uber previously ruled out moving into Dundee

In 2018, The Courier reported that Uber had ruled out any move into Dundee with its taxi service.

At the time, Graeme Stephen, chairman of Dundee Taxi Association, said: “The ranks are normally full with taxis and you can get one very quickly if you call.

“There’s simply no demand for them (Uber) in Dundee.”

However, it was reported in 2021 that the number of taxis operating in Dundee had plummeted.

Uber Dundee: Taxi chief responds to plans

Reacting to the latest development, Chris Elder – who represents some Dundee taxi drivers through Unite the Union – said: “I was actually speaking with some drivers in Aberdeen about it.

“The biggest issue I could see for Uber coming into Dundee is the fact that any new private vehicle coming on the road now has to be electric.

“Uber drivers would still have to go through all the stringent checks that taxi drivers go through as well to ensure they are fit and proper.

“Given the laws regarding taxis are set by the local authority, I think the stipulation regarding electric taxis might be the biggest stumbling block for them.”

Uber has revolutionised the way many people hail rides since launching in San Francisco in 2009.

Customers can use an app to book taxis and find out the vehicle’s location, make and model, as well as the driver’s name and rating.

Fares are automatically taken from users’ bank accounts.

In 2014 the firm expanded to launch food delivery service Uber Eats, which is already operating in Dundee.

Anyway, in essence the hurdles Uber may face in Dundee are largely similar to those in Aberdeen - the same 'entry barriers' for both PHDs and HCDs, and the meters in PHV thing, and the inability to work cross-border on an ongoing basis.

Maybe one caveat is that I'd guess the Dundee knowledge etc isn't quite the significant hurdle it is in Aberdeen.

And the Unite rep makes the good point that any new PHV plates can only be for EVs. Which I'd guess is a bit of a hurdle compared to elsewhere, but certainly not a huge one, nor a game changer as regards Uber's thinking. And, of course, nothing to stop existing vehicles from signing up with Uber.

But which all begs the question in both Dundee and Aberdeen. Since the two sides of the trade are largely one and the same - same knowledge test, they work from same offices and PHVs have meters set to the council tariff - if Uber arrive could they start using HCs as well as PHVs on a large-scale basis? If I was Uber, I wouldn't see why not

EVs are right up Uber's street, they will spend boatloads of cash subsidising them.

Because cross-border isn't an issue up there I'm surprised driver's reps are getting the willys.

_________________
IDFIMH

Indeed, Sussex, Uber would use the EV thing for marketing purposes, as they already do. 'Greenwashing' I think the cynics call it.

But if I was in the Dundee trade, particularly an independent HC sort of thing, there are several reasons I'd get 'the willies' about Uber coming to the party.

The 'hard', regulatory issues first - that Uber might be able to get the barriers to entry watered down; that Uber might be able to do something about the cross-border prohibition; and that Uber will exert downward pressure on fares - for example, that people might expect the mainstream trade to match Uber's bottom of the barrel fares, and that this might permeate across the trade, and/or cause conflict and kick offs with punters.

There are a couple of maybe softer issues that the HCDs might fear. First, the old chestnut that punters, especially the likes of young students, say - will shift from street hiring to app booking via Uber. Which, of course is a decades-old trend in terms of mobile phones and the like, but having Uber in town might just accelerate it. Another 'soft' issue is that Uber is good at making the job look attractive in terms of a career or gigging, thus attracting more drivers into the trade than at present. Of course, the other side of the coin in that regard is that Uber could mean more people booking Uber's PHVs rather than walking, taking the bus or using their own car, thus to an extent cancelling out any increase in drivers overall.

But apart from that, I'm sure they'll be cock-a-hoop if Uber rolls up in Dundee

Forgot to mention, too, that of course the headline is typically misleading in the technical sense.

Uber would apply for a private hire operator's licence in England, of course.

In Scotland, it's a booking office licence, not a 'taxi' licence as per the headline.

And, unlike down south, the booking office licence is required for PHVs and/or HCs.

And in Scotland an operator's licence (whether HC or PH) is a plate, simply put.

And you would have good cause to do so.

Down here not only has it affected the rank work of hackneys, but it has all but wiped out the supply of hackney journeymen.

_________________
IDFIMH

That is a 100% certainly.

_________________
IDFIMH

Widespread everywhere, I'd guess, with or without Uber - Glasgow, for example, probably not unlike B&H.

There are a lot more 'singled' cars here now as well. Ironically, probably a lot more than there were before a license quota was imposed

But one reason I'd guess is that there are a lot fewer part-time, occasional drivers who the owners and proprietors used to have driving their multi-shifted cars.

Instead, many of the singled cars are driven by folks of, er, overseas heritage. Who aren't only primarily full-timers, but many also seem to spend their lives effectively spending almost all their waking hours in their cars

Wouldn't like to put any figures on it, but definitely more emphasis on 'living to work' rather than 'working to live' with some of them these days...

Of course, long hours hardly unknown in the trade, but, you know...

Nothing particularly new here for those in the trade, and as usual it makes it sound like Uber will reinvent the wheel in Dundee. Of course, no doubt they've changed things elsewhere, but as I keep on saying, under the Scottish legislation it won't be quite so easy without the cross-border option.

And the driver quoted here is the same one in the recent piece about people working in the nighttime economy, or whatever it was

A few weeks back he said he was 'basically a psychiatrist' - he'll certainly be popular in the trade if Uber come to town

Says here he's 'president of the Dundee City Taxi Drivers Association'. Which sounds like a new organisation rather than the old TOA, or whatever it was called. Problem with these organisations with generic-looking names is that they often seem to be called something slightly different every time you see it written down, so can get confusing

Same with our whatchamacallit in North East Fife. Or was it just East Fife


Uber in Dundee: Is the city ready to welcome ‘dynamic’ taxi firm?

It was revealed last week that Uber could be extending its Scottish venture into Dundee, but would its ride services be a welcome addition to the city?


Image: Mhairi Edwards/DC Thomson

When the drinks are finished and the dancing done on a wet Saturday night then a taxi can be a welcoming sight.

In a smaller city like Dundee taxis are not too hard to find but, nevertheless, there could be an influx of new cabs arriving soon.

It was revealed last week that Uber could be extending its Scottish venture into Dundee.

The food delivery, ridesharing and freight transport company confirmed it is set to apply for a licence to operate taxis in the city.

Councillors would need to approve any application, so it’s far from a done deal, but the disruptive firm is closer to entering Dundee since bosses previously stated they had no plans.

The firm already offers services in Edinburgh and Glasgow – and is also planning to apply for a licence in Aberdeen.

Uber rides are requested via a smartphone app, with updates provided on their estimated arrival and current location.

Customers can also find out the vehicle’s make and model, along with the Uber driver’s name and rating.
It operates in 59 towns and cities across the UK and is reportedly in talks about establishing itself in Dundee.

‘We have more taxis than we need already’

Qaiser Habib (also known as Kaiser) is a Dundee taxi driver and president of the Dundee City Taxi Drivers Association.

He is not convinced that Uber would benefit Dundee businesses or residents, describing an already saturated taxi scene.

“Dundee is a small city and we actually have more taxis than needed in the taxi ranks”, he says.

“I don’t think it’s a good idea. They are only thinking of coming to Dundee right now and are not decided yet.

“I have heard of the public and local businesses having bad experiences with Uber.

“There are more than enough taxis in Dundee. There can often be 30-40 in one particular area and we are usually with our customers within minutes.”


Image: Mhairi Edwards/DC Thomson

Mr Habib also argues that getting an Uber will be harder than flagging down a taxi from a local company.

This is due to the protocol of pre-organising Uber rides and the operator’s reliance on customers using their card or smartphone to pay.

“We are actually near the limit of drivers that we need in the city right now and Uber could have a bad impact on local businesses.

“I have heard about Uber raising their prices at certain times, but we maintain the same throughout the night.

“If you come out of the pubs at 1am and need a taxi we won’t charge you more.

“We also make sure to always support local businesses and livelihoods. All of our drivers are based out of local offices and every driver is accountable because we all know each other.”

Would Uber introduce more ‘technology driven’ taxis to Dundee?

Uber operates a system called “dynamic pricing” that can increase the price of rides when lots of customers in a certain location are ordering them at the same time.

In a bustling Overgate shopping centre Arhum and Mohammad Saad are enjoying the shops on foot.


Image: Finn Nixon/DC Thomson

Arhum thinks Uber would have a competitive “edge” on the existing taxi services in the city if it started operating in Dundee.

He arrived in the city 15 months ago from Pakistan as an international student and believes more technology is the way forward.

“They have Uber taxis in my home country and I like the service there”, he says.

“I’m eagerly looking to use Uber services here in the UK. If it comes over here it will provide good journeys for me and for everyone in the city.

“It provides a very good service in Pakistan and I experienced a good service when I used it in the UAE (United Arab Emirates).

“It should be technology driven. I should be able to press a button and the taxi should come.

“I have used the city taxis, but the technology is lagging. So, Uber will be able to compete and have an edge.”

Mohammad is also positive about Uber ridesharing capabilities and says it is a “wonderful service.”

“Whenever you order local taxis it can take a lot of time for one to arrive. You are often in a big queue.”
“Uber would be beneficial and have an upper hand on local taxis in Dundee.

“It would make it very easy because on the phone you can just type your address. It would be very convenient.

“A touch of a finger and you’re going to get your Uber service there.“