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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:35 am 
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Even countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have national debt. Even if Scotland wiped out it's national debt with the rest of the UK, how long do you think it would take to get right back up there? just paying the civil servants and their pensions would soon rack up a debt.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:58 am 
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grandad wrote:
Even countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have national debt. Even if Scotland wiped out it's national debt with the rest of the UK, how long do you think it would take to get right back up there? just paying the civil servants and their pensions would soon rack up a debt.


Of course they do.

The point is - as is a household/business, is the ability to pay it back - ours is forever increasing. As the b i t c h said, run the country like you would your own house.......on that she was right.

As to whether they rack up other debt is up to them - but they have a chance to put everything into perspective. As things are, this country is way out of control with salaries in the higher echelons way out of synch of income, and the wealth distribution of the country totally disproportionate. We are at rock bottom and that is why interest rates have stayed low for such a long time - there is no real spending money left for the masses and this will continue to be driven down because of immigrants willing to work for lower wages plus greedy bosses/companies increasing the bottom line......but not giving out decent wage rises - I really do not see an end to it for many years to come.

Mark Carney once again revises his policies (last time it was employment @7% would see an interest rate adjustment) - this time wages are not rising as much as he thought. If they moved his office out of London..............he might see as to how the rest of the country is screwed, and will remain so for a long time to come..........the clock is ticking and we have never been in the claimed recession for as long as this one - as the years go on, remember I said it first "This is the way we live" .

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:51 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Nidge2 wrote:
It's not going happen, Alex has been found out as full of wind - his version of Scottish independence seems to involve telling everyone else (eu, uk, nato) what to do, rather than just deciding what Scotland will do.


Isnt that what people want Mr Cameron to do and why they're voting UKIP?



It's what us in England want.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:09 pm 
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Nidge2 wrote:
It's not going happen, Alex has been found out as full of wind - his version of Scottish independence seems to involve telling everyone else (eu, uk, nato) what to do, rather than just deciding what Scotland will do.


We definitely need somebody to stand up to UK, EU or whoever may be acting against our best interests - that is the type of leadership the English would want too I am sure.

captain cab wrote:
Benign under new labour? Are you having a laugh? How many illegal wars did the UK enter?


Yes in a way you're right, New Labour and the Tories are becoming increasingly all part of one thing, one global rights-crushing capitalism reaching its tentacles into every aspect of our lives - take a look at the present housing crisis, people cannot get a home to live in even though they are decent hard-working people - the property market does not work and as Mark Carney says is greatly harmful to our economy. Or look at the health services - driven by profit not people, denying treatment to millions. Labour is not Labour any more, though I believe during the Blair/Brown tenancy they had some sense of social justice unlike the present incumbents.

bloodnock wrote:
I have always felt Equal to all, I reckon some folk of a Yes persuasion have a chip on their shoulder brought about through an overly active inferiority complex that makes them imagine that they will never be equal until their is no one left to be equal to in their tiny political national bubble.

Scots have been leading the world for centuries, something they would never could have managed without the springboard that a United Kingdom offers.

To further Isolate ourselves just to feel more equal is not going to increase our standing on the world stage. #-o


Scottish Nationalism is about going to the world BYPASSING London, ie we become a COMPLETELY independent nation in the world - JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE - like the 16 countries of Europe of approximately our size, or the 15 post-Soviet states. Why does virtually everyone else select Independence? Read the politics of the Prince - Machiavelli - 'Independence' is a FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE for the governance of ANY State - it is NON-NEGOTIABLE.

We have according to you a 'tiny political bubble' - but in fact a nation of 5 million people, that's not exactly 'tiny'.

What we need is for Scottish people to come on board and for politicians like Gordon Brown and Alastair Darling to rethink their commitments and decide to serve THEIR OWN COUNTRY. They did not exactly get much respect from the English did they? A guy in my taxi recently who worked on business frequently in London told me if you knew what they think of Scotland down there 'you be declaring Independence tomorrow' and that is a direct quote.

The SNP have done all they can - we cannot go forward if people do not come on board - and we need people at the highest levels also - in a way those are the ones who have most let us down - they are an absolute disgrace.

I have seen how Scottish companies can succeed on SCOTTISH VALUES - having previously worked for one of Scotland's top companies who (still) make the majority of the world's cash-point machines. A pioneering business built on Scottish engineering prowess and innovation. Princess Anne came to visit once and walked around the Japanese-class manufacturing facility scarcely unable to believe this was Britain let alone a backwater of small town Scotland where everyone is supposed to be so backwards and inward-looking - she was SO impressed! This was Scotland at its best, this was international Scotland. Some English people also worked at that company, but the ones at the TOP, both in Engineering and Management were very much Scottish. The only ones above them were the Americans. This company had customers in hundreds of countries worldwide, shipping lorry loads of terminal every single day. When you see what Scotland can achieve when it is left to get on with it and do things ITS OWN WAY then it is impressive! As I said before the USA is independent and has prospered because of that and we could do exactly the same. And the above business has absolutely nothing to do with oil - Scotland's economy is prosperous WITHOUT OIL - a point that is over-looked over and over again.

Its a terrible thing to say but so much of this life boils down to MONEY - and the English Tories know that more than anyone - and it is money that is at the root of this whole Independence debate - it is f all to do with the 'inferiority complex' and 'chip on the shoulder' that you speak of - and it is EVERYTHING to do with the indoctrinated mentality in Scotland that sees having vast oil resources as 'no big deal' or even a bad thing, whilst any other country in the world would be dancing in the gushers black-faced with smiles of elation and joy. That's Scotland - that's the Scotland you've built mate.


Scotland's Currency :-

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:33 pm 
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I believe during the Blair/Brown tenancy they had some sense of social justice unlike the present incumbents.


unless you were Iraq - then your social justice could go phooey.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:27 pm 
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And interestingly now Scotland’s most eminent historian Sir Tom Devine has now declared support for the Yes Campaign

“It is the Scots who have succeeded most in preserving the British idea of fairness and compassion in terms of state support and intervention. Ironically, it is England, since the 1980s, which has embarked on a separate journey,” Sir Tom said.

"the historian said he had also been persuaded to vote Yes by the “flowering of the Scottish economy”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11039851/Sir-Tom-Devine-backs-Scottish-independence.html


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:59 pm 
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handyman wrote:
And interestingly now Scotland’s most eminent historian Sir Tom Devine has now declared support for the Yes Campaign

“It is the Scots who have succeeded most in preserving the British idea of fairness and compassion in terms of state support and intervention. Ironically, it is England, since the 1980s, which has embarked on a separate journey,” Sir Tom said.

"the historian said he had also been persuaded to vote Yes by the “flowering of the Scottish economy”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11039851/Sir-Tom-Devine-backs-Scottish-independence.html


Aye..him expressing his voting intentions will hardly have the NO voter or undecided running to the YES camp...never even heard of him before now. :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:10 pm 
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And Robert Bruce backs independence also -

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:12 pm 
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this is all very interesting handyman - but the majority of posters here are from England (and wales) and don't have a vote - it also seems that the majority of Scots here have already made up their mind.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:47 am 
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A No vote on Sept 18th is quite possibly the stupidest thing any Scottish person will ever do in their entire life. WE ARE BEING LIED TO.

Notable business leaders are telling us Independence is a GOOD decision -

Sir George Mathewson - former Chief Executive of the RBS

Professor Sir Donald Mackay - highly respected economist

I figure these guys would not come on the side of Independence if there was not a good reason for it.

People have fought and died in wars to gain ASSETS - all we have to do is tick a box - unbelievable how brain-washed people can become. Its like someone telling you a solid gold watch you've got is 'not really worth that much' and they'll give you a tenner for it and consider yourself lucky - that is what Westminster is effectively doing to Scotland's gold watch of the North Sea.

English people need to hear this debate too - it affects their government also, Scotland's independence could positively affect England.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:43 pm 
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handyman wrote:

Sir George Mathewson - former Chief Executive of the RBS


you consider a former chief exec of a bank to be a good endorsement. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:49 pm 
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grandad wrote:
handyman wrote:

Sir George Mathewson - former Chief Executive of the RBS


you consider a former chief exec of a bank to be a good endorsement. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Next they'll be extolling Sawney Bean for his 16th century contribution to Scottish vegetarianism.. #-o


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:43 pm 
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grumpy wrote:
You really don't get it down south of the border (and some up here), do you? the MSM have made it all about Salmond and the SNP, whereas most accept that it's so much more. There's a major grassroots movement out there that far out weighs anything the governments of Scotland or the UK can muster, or indeed corral. The people of Scotland have woken up to the fact that politics is so much more than party allegiance, it's about the people and what they want to see happen to their country. It's becoming more and more apparent it bears no resemblance to what the mandarins of Westminster think we want or need, nor is it wholly what Wee Eck at al are proposing. We are different. Of that there's no doubt. How different will only be determined at the polling stations on 18th Sept. I only hope we are brave enough to grasp the opportunity to show the rest of the world we're ready to join them as equals. Saor Alba.


Just back from a week down south and your dead right. They just don't get it at all :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:46 pm 
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Nidge2 wrote:

It's what us in England want.


That view almost always prevails over what we in Scotland want.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:49 pm 
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bloodnock wrote:

I'd rather endure the Tories than Salmond, the Guys an utter control freak.


That about says it all :lol:

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