Taxi Driver Online

There are probably four different issues:

1 Sale of Goods Act (or whatever it's called these days) - goods must be fit for purpose, or returnable etc. Probably no relevance to vehicles of this age and mileage.

2 Warranty - If the warranty extends only to 100,000 miles then presumably most of the taxis affected will have exceeded that, so it would not be relevant. After all, you car could have a major safety issue at 5 years/200,000 miles, but the manufacturer would just laugh at you if you tried to claim anything under warranty.

3 Recall - This generally happens in relation to safety matters, and probably has nothing to do with the above factors.

4 Goodwill - even if the above three are irrelevant, there's nothing to stop a manufacturer repairing the vehicle gratis and/or offering compo if they so wish in terms of simple customer relations. Of course, this is especially the case when a large number of vehicles is involved, when there's been extensive media coverage and when there's a self-evident threat to public safety - LTI doesn't want it's image tarnished by the affair, at least no more than it already has been. This is perhaps more so if they're up against a well-organised lobby (such as a class action) and of course there's already a powerful pressure group interested in the form of the LTDA and other drivers' groups.

There are no doubt other legal perspectives that could be looked at, but seems like one for the lawyers

Following the News Release on behalf of LTI Vehicles by Connect PR, there are a few issues that concern me.

Firstly, if the root cause of the conflagrations in the TX4 engine compartments has been found, & the re-working & remedy is to the highest standard as we would all expect, why is there a need for a FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM?

Surely, if the full cause of the problem has truly been correctly diagnosed, & the re-working is to totally rectify the problem, there would be no need for a FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM.

Or should the sentence quoted above, perhaps read, ‘We think we have identified the problem, but we’re not entirely sure, so just in case, we are fitting a FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM in every re-worked TX4’.

And have any of the owners/proprietors of these TX4s asked their insurance companies whether they will continue to be insured on a fully comprehensive basis, with a FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM fitted to these vehicles, or will insurance companies amend policies to decline claims for fire in these TX4s?

Also, the timing of the Stock Exchange statement seems to be quite deliberate as the following link seems to show;

http://www.investegate.co.uk/Article.as ... 709214877E

If, as it would seem, the Stock Exchange statement was timed at 17:38:50hrs on Friday, 26th September 2008, then staff at the PCO and TfL would have probably gone home for the weekend when it was released.

The PCO and TfL have yet to make a comment or release a statement about this News Release, and I would have thought that if LTI were keeping the PCO and TfL ‘in the loop’, they would have acted in a co-ordinated or synchronised manner.

And from what I can gather from the website below, it would appear that a warning/control panel, which will give an audio/visual warning in case of a fire, will need to be fitted somewhere in or near the dashboard of these TX4s and will probably look a bit ‘Heath-Robinson’.

http://www.firesuppressionsouthern.co.u ... ystems.php

It would have been better if the PCO and/or TfL had issued statements before these re-workings had started over this weekend.

After all, it’s not LTI that removes the stops on these TX4s, & if the PCO/TfL is not satisfied with the explanations from LTI & the remedial work on these vehicles being carried out by LTI, where do these TX4 owners go then?

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Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.

Brummie Cabbie wrote;

''If, as it would seem, the Stock Exchange statement was timed at 17:38:50hrs on Friday, 26th September 2008, then staff at the PCO and TfL would have probably gone home for the weekend when it was released. ''

My posting Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:14 pm
''The reason why the PCO are going to release a statement at noon on a Friday is simple.
By the time the trade has received and and taken advise on it,by then it's late Friday afternoon and people are off for the weekend.
By the time Monday comes,people have charmed down - or that's what the PCO plans...''

LTI are playing games with their punters,sorry customers..

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Charlton's lost past http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsFKWGlrze0
London's future? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... rants.html

Would it be too unreasonable to ask anyone in authority what caused these fires and expect a precise and accurate answer?

So far we have heard what LTI intend to do but they haven't said what or how these fires were caused? Far be it from me to be cynical but if the problem is the Exhaust Gas Recirculation pipe then why is there a need to inspect all the wiring for unusual wear? What is the relationship between the Exhaust Gas Recirculation pipe and the wiring or is the wiring check just an added free service and unrelated to the fire diagnosis?

**Thoroughly inspect all pipe runs and wiring for evidence of "unusual wear" and replace as necessary**

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

The "Exhaust Gas Recirculation" (EGR) valve is the biggest culprit of smoke on a modern engine, it may reduce Nox, but it does SFA for smoke, ask any mondeo Tdci owner

my mondeo 130 tdci now has its EGR defeated and has no smoke, but as its a euro3 engine thats quite simple, a euro4 has sensors to detect if the EGR is not working, so more guile is required.

my tourneo is next......

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most

I don't believe they have found the cause. I think they hope this action will make it look like the problem is solved and head off a financial disaster. It's a snow job.

Fire suppresion system? Why would they even dream of fitting such a thing if the fault is rectified.

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

Those with TX4's have to wonder when or if the same problem will occur with their engines?

I think one thing is certain, one of the causes of these fires is fatigure in the exhaust gas recircultation pipe system. The problem manifests in time so if the problem has not been rectified in later TX4 models then it would be safe to assume that as time goes on the same fatigue problems will occur presenting the same results as these earlier models.

Does anyone agree with that train of thought or can LTI advise us all that the problem will not occur in later models because they use different safer proven materials in these latest models?

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Will the natural progression of this blame game bring an end to the association between LTI and the engine manufacturers?

Will LTI try and recoup the 4 million pound spend from the engine manufacturers and in turn will the engine manufacturers put the blame on LTI. There is definately going to be a loser in this game beside the cab driver but where eventually will the buck stop?

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

AND ALSO;



Although I’m not a trained mechanic, I am self taught & can do most, if not all, things around a vehicle, using common sense & workshop manuals. So I think what’s been said is my train of thought too.

The need for inspection of all pipes & wiring is IMO best explained by re-wording that part of the re-working notice statement as follows;

"Thoroughly inspect all pipe runs and wiring for evidence of unusually rapid and very early degradation due to, and caused by, very high temperatures in the affected areas (and not “unusual wear") and replace as necessary".

I would strongly suspect, and it seems to be verified by the list & detail of the re-working that is to be done on the TX4s, that temperatures in the affected under bonnet area have been extremely high from day one of all these TX4s. I would also suspect that the wiring in some parts of the electrical loom, in or very near the affected area, may have already become brittle, & if not completely brittle, will not last as long as it would be reasonably expected to function correctly.

Also, the pipes, in or very near the affected area would probably suffer the same problem as above.

Even if some of these TX4s are passed without replacement of wiring & pipes, I would further suspect that in time these “cooking” or “baking” problems to the electrical wiring & pipes in the vicinity of the extreme heat that appears to be being generated from the Exhaust Gas Recirculation pipe system, “will come back to bite your bum”!!

And yes, these TX4 under bonnet fires do seem to manifest in time. This morning, I spoke to a colleague who owns a ’08 TX4 and he has had the same Product Recall letter. So, it would seem that they are all in need of re-working.

AND, AND, AND, ……. What’s the betting that these new and improved Exhaust Gas Recirculation pipes that have replaced the fatigue failed ones will now need to be replaced at regular intervals as an addition to the servicing schedule?

IMO, it seems that the affected area is getting so intensely hot that it may be affect wiring & pipes nearby, & also causing the fatigue failure of the Exhaust Gas Recirculation pipe itself. And that to me points to regular periodic maintenance of the suspect part, or in this case total periodic replacement of the ERG pipe.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.

That, along with the fire supression system that will no doubt need regular servicing will, i'm sure help LTI et all recoup any expense they currently have to endure! Once again, in the long term the driver will end up paying for the f@*k ups of the manufacturers........

Can't remember where I read this but I'm sure that during development of the TX4 and it was rumoured that VM Motori were going to supply the engine, the Italian military declined to use them because of overheating problems.

gusmac wrote:
''Fire suppression system? Why would they even dream of fitting such a thing if the fault is rectified. ''.

My snout at LTI tells me as far as they are concerned they have solved the problem. It's the PCO who want the fire suppression system to show they are doing their job .

As ever,you can't get a fag paper between LTI and PCO so this is why we have the problem solved AND the fire suppression system.
Does my snout think the problem is solved?
Time will tell.

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Charlton's lost past http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsFKWGlrze0
London's future? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... rants.html

Any bets it's a balloon filled with water

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

If the 56 reg TX4s are such a fire risk,how will drivers or LTI get them to Brewery Road to work on them?
The drivers can't drive them there, if they do many will have to pay the 'congestion' charge.

Surely if is the responsibility of LTI to collect the vehicles,work on them and return them to the drivers.

Interesting to see how this will pan out.

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Charlton's lost past http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsFKWGlrze0
London's future? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... rants.html

With the amount of work these guys are loosing I would think the paying of one congestion charge would be a small price to pay.

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Grandad,