Taxi Driver Online

Well it becomes applicable in two ways, one where the new owner lives 200 miles away and two where they intend to use the vehicle under a contract of private hire.

A, the council can't stop the vehicle transfer based on postal code and

B. They can't legally stop the vehicle being used as private hire.

Unless it is your untried and untested opinion that a council can restrict vehicle transfers by postal code?

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Not many from Dumfries....but the point is they work in Carlisle...they dont have a Carlisle plate and work in Dumfries or Newcastle Upon Tyne.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I think you'll find they were ruled out a long time before that.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

You know what might stop a 200 mile away application?

Asking for the vehicle to be presented for test within the district.

FFS

Your as bad as them.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

You will soon get your answer to that question when the wrexham case goes to appeal. A council can set any condition it likes as long as it is lawful.

In Gladen, Collins stated that no license was needed in order to take a booking for a hackney carriage. A council cannot make something illegal that is already perfectly legal under statute law.



I was informed last year that initially there will be six or seven licensing zones, has this changed?



I bellieve that too but it isn't going to happen. Berwick are going through the motions of complying with the judges suggestions for the simple reason of expediency. They will no longer operate as a single authority from April 1st 2009 therefore the whole issue is accademic.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

The point is legality of transfer and nothing else.

I asked the question What about vehicle transfers? Are licensing authorities going to go against current case law and refuse to transfer a vehicle license on the basis that the new owner lives miles from where the vehicle is licensed?

A simple question deserving of a simple answer. I take it your answer is "NO" they are not going to refuse the transfer.



I try to debate the way the law currently stands and not how someone might think it should stand. The law doesn't stand on hypotheticals it stands on facts and we should all stick to those facts no matter where we stand on a particular issue.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

I think you're right in saying that Berwick has been a bit too accomodating with regard to the testing of vehicles, but your other comment about bending over backwards is perhaps putting it a bit strongly.

As far as I'm aware cross-border issues in England are hardly confined to Berwick and the north east, and are hardly new either; it just seems to be the case that it's happening on a grander scale in Berwick, and this has merely underlined the nonsensical legislation in this regard.

Probably the reason that Berwick did little to stop the bandwagon was that prima facie there was little obvious they could do against a glaring loophole in the legislation, which, as I said, had hardly just been uncovered.

The judge doesn't quite say it's a loophole, but might as well have done; instead he outlines what he considers desirable, which as JD has pointed out at length is really not the issue - it's the law that counts, and the judges use of the term 'desirable' makes it obvious that he knows he does't have a legal leg to stand on.

So instead he in effect recommends that Berwick refuse applications for licences which will be used outside the council area, and the newspaper reports suggest that Berwick will do just that.

However, the reason they probably didn't do this before is that the council probably knew that if challenged then the courts would find that there were no grounds for refusing an application on this basis, thus it'll be interesting to see what happens if Berwick adopt such a policy and they are challenged on it.

However, Berwick can at least claim that they are in effect merely following the judge's advice, so to that extent that lets them off the hook if they end up embroiled in another court case.

Incidentally, perhaps the reason Berwick didn't adopt a proper knowledge test - which might have deterred those intending to work elsewhere - was that the local trade didn't want it, which might have threatened their interests - after all, cars working elsewhere is probably of no concern to them, whereas stifling the supply of new drivers to the genuinely local trade might be.

I apologise, the "your as bad as them" remark was out of order.

regards

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I tend to agree with a lot youve written.

In respect of bending over backwards I mean allowing postal applications, never seeing vehicles, opening testing stations in other areas etc.

I understand the Local Association have suggested a knowledge test, but it was refused on the basis that drivers werent getting lost in Berwick!

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

FFs First the BBC got the report wrong now Border and south west teletext has both claim Newcastle won

Another bloody big link shortened by admin

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Fair enough, but I did mention the testing aspect and agree entirely that they should have retained that function in the council area, particularly when the legislation gives them the right to demand it, IIRC.

As for postal applications, I did assume that this was standard practice; it's certainly allowed here, since the size of the area means that people would have to travel perhaps 20 miles to just hand in a form, but perhaps it's different for new applications rather than renewals - I don't know offhand.



Thanks for that, I was just speculating in that regard.

However, as I mentioned above, why would the local trade be bothered about it, unless they want a knowledge test for their own interests rather than in relation to the cross-border scenario.

I think the trade in Berwick are actually a little miffed that they have been falsely viewed on a national basis as pariahs.

In terms of the cash income, the berwick trade, I understand were fearful that the LA would use the money to employ lots more staff and buy vans for enforcement......and to be left with the bill for any court case / suplus vans / surplus licensing officers if it all went wrong......and TBH I think they have a point.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I presume they havent heard of identity theft in Berwick yet.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Judge forces change in Berwick taxi licence tussle
Nov 6 2008 by Brian Daniel, The Journal

A NORTH council dubbed the Panama of the taxi world has been told to be more careful with cab licences.

Berwick Borough Council stood accused of acting as a flag of convenience for cabbies across the country.

The 26,000-population town has licensed 672 black taxis to operate, with some of them working as far afield as Liverpool.

But Newcastle City Council took the authority to court after an increasing number of Berwick-registered cabbies were seeking fares in the city.

Now a High Court judge has ruled the borough council must consider where taxis are likely to work before issuing a licence. He also ordered it to pay £30,000 costs.

Berwick last night said it would change its policies in light of the ruling.

Judge Christopher Symons QC heard how in 2006 just 46 cab licences were issued in Berwick. But by the following year, it had soared to 148 and by August this year it was 672.

The borough council argued it was obliged to offer a licence to any car provided it was fit to trade, but the claim was rejected.

The city council had taken issue with Berwick’s policy of granting licences to drivers it knew were not operating in the borough. It wrote to the authority in May last year, demanding a change.

While acknowledging the council’s stance was not unlawful, Judge Symons accepted the difficulties it posed in terms of enforcement for other councils.

He said: “It seems to me that it must be desirable for an authority issuing licences to hackney carriages to be able to restrict the issuing of those licences to proprietors and drivers which are intending to ply for hire in that authority’s area.”

Last night, his decision was welcomed by both sides. Stephen Savage, director of regulatory services and public protection at the city council, said: “Newcastle City Council are delighted at being successful in the High Court, the judge having found that Berwick may exercise discretion under the terms of the legislation when licensing hackney carriages.

“They should only licence hackney carriages which intend to ply for hire in their area.”

Berwick council has vowed to re-write its policy on taxi licensing.

But it said it would not take any action to terminate any current licences before the creation of a single council for Northumberland next April.

Council licensing manager David Wilson said: “Berwick Borough Council has always recognised that law evolves and accordingly is taking steps to ensure that it will probably be the first council in the country to address the issues identified by the judge.”

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin