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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:31 pm 
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Quote:
No problem.

It was an attempt at humour.

I knew what you meant, sorry if I offended your fluffy girly blondeness.


My fault sorry, I shouldn't be so sensitive :oops:

Perhaps next time a :wink: would help me to see you are joking :D

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toots wrote:
what's with calling me a wierdo.


Quote:
he has got a point

CC


That's the kettle calling the pot black :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:06 pm 
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jimbo wrote:
captain cab wrote:
jimbo wrote:

Well, "wannabeeahack" Did you never see their how do you sleep at nights series of ads a few years ago?

Do you drive a hack? Is it a wav? do you hit the start button on your meter when a punter opens the door, or when they are sitting comfortably?


Aint a vehicle hired when the driver cannot accept another fare?

CC


If you say so Cap. as long as "wanna" treats the disabled and able bodied equally, there would be no problem with the DDA, would there? (would there?)



your quite welcome to the WAV trade guys, but watch your backs, s/employed cant get SSP.....

i can see a short trip taking longer to load/off load than drive

as for shoppers, do they need ramps and pushing up? they can lift thier own shopping, im a DRIVER (or so DVLA say, im not so sure)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:11 am 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
s/employed cant get SSP.....



Not sure how it works up your way but all "cabs", both hac and ph down here are self employed.

Seems more of a northern thing to employ drivers.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:40 am 
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Quote:
they can lift thier own shopping,


Customer service at it's best! :roll:


Quote:
except 5 of the suitcases could have held me and weighed as if maybe they did (except i was doing the lifting, unaided)


So why lift luggage if you won't lift shopping? :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:16 pm 
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echo15 wrote:
Quote:
they can lift thier own shopping,


Customer service at it's best! :roll:


Quote:
except 5 of the suitcases could have held me and weighed as if maybe they did (except i was doing the lifting, unaided)


So why lift luggage if you won't lift shopping? :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



simple maths

shopping = short trips £3 - £5

luggage = airports £30 - £150 plus a good tip

(i CAN be bought)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:30 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:


simple maths

shopping = short trips £3 - £5

luggage = airports £30 - £150 plus a good tip

(i CAN be bought)


so you just do airport work then?

CC

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:36 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:


simple maths

shopping = short trips £3 - £5

luggage = airports £30 - £150 plus a good tip

(i CAN be bought)


so you just do airport work then?

CC


no, race course meetings, airports, night clubs, school runs, etc

not seen a shopping bag yet though (except the wifes, and she can struggle for me)

i dont do local "bumps".

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:45 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:

no, race course meetings, airports, night clubs, school runs, etc

not seen a shopping bag yet though (except the wifes, and she can struggle for me)

i dont do local "bumps".


So your quite selective.

CC

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:55 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:

no, race course meetings, airports, night clubs, school runs, etc

not seen a shopping bag yet though (except the wifes, and she can struggle for me)

i dont do local "bumps".


So your quite selective.

CC


isnt that allowed?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:57 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:

isnt that allowed?


of course it is.....but your different to a lot of us who take whatever they can get :wink:

CC

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:58 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:

isnt that allowed?


of course it is.....but your different to a lot of us who take whatever they can get :wink:

CC

unto each his own, as the saying goes

im not gonna bounce round town in a trans.....er, tourneo now am i?

lets be practical

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:57 am 
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Response received from HSE,

Ref: WJPE-7QQJLH

Dear Mr

Thank you for your enquiry regarding manual handling wheelchairs.

The Manual Handling Operations Regulation 1992 (as amended) do not give a maximum pulling or pushing weight for wheelchairs. However they do state under Regulation 4, Employers Duties that:

(1) Each employer shall -

(a) so far as is reasonably practicable, avoid the need for his employees to undertake any manual handling operations at work which involve a risk to their being injured.

(1) Each employer shall –



(b) where it is not reasonably practicable to avoid the need for his employees to undertake any manual handling operations at work which involve a risk of their being injured –



(i) make a suitable and sufficient assessment of all such manual handling operations to be undertaken by them.



(ii) take appropriate steps to reduce the risk of injury to those employees arising out of their undertaking any such manual handling operations to the lowest level reasonably practicable, and



(iii) take appropriate steps to provide any of those employees who are undertaking any such manual handling operations with general indications and, where it is reasonably practicable to do so, precise information on –



(aa) the weight of each load, and



(bb) the heaviest side of any load whose centre of gravity is not positioned centrally.

The guidance to the regulation states that:

The Regulations should not be considered in isolation. Regulation 3(1) of the Management Regulations 1999 requires employers to make a suitable and sufficient assessment of the risks to the health and safety of their employees while at work. Where this general assessment indicates the possibility of risks to employees from the manual handling of loads, the requirements of the Manual Handling Operations Regulations should be complied with.

The Regulations set out a hierarchy of measures which should be followed to reduce the risks from manual handling. These are set out in regulation 4(1) and are as follows:



(a) avoid hazardous manual handling operations so far as is reasonably practicable;



(b) assess any hazardous manual handling operations that cannot be avoided; and



(c) reduce the risk of injury so far as is reasonably practicable.



Avoiding manual handling



If the general assessment carried out under regulation 3(1) of the Management Regulations indicates a possibility of injury from manual handling operations, the first thing to consider is whether the manual handling operation can be avoided altogether. It may not be necessary to assess the risk in great detail, particularly if the operations can easily be avoided or the appropriate steps to reduce any risk of injury to the lowest level reasonably practicable are obvious.

Elimination of handling

When trying to avoid manual handling the first questions to ask are whether the load/s need to be handled at all, or could the work be done in a different way? For example, can a process such as machining or wrapping be carried out in situ, without handling the loads? Can a treatment be brought to a patient rather than taking the patient to the treatment?



Automation or mechanisation



If, so far as is reasonably practicable, handling of the load cannot be avoided, then can the operation/s be either:

(a) automated; or

(b) mechanised?

The guidance states the following regarding pushing and pulling loads:

Most pushing and pulling workplace activities are introduced as a way of reducing manual handling, for example eliminating carrying by loading goods onto a trolley. However, lifting, lowering and carrying, pushing or pulling a load can harm the handler. The majority of injuries resulting from pushing and pulling activities affect the back, neck and shoulders. Entrapment injuries are also common. Approximately two-thirds of push/pull accidents involve objects that are not supported on wheels, for example, furniture or bales of wool.

Points to consider when reducing the risks from pushing and pulling include:

(a) the length of the route. Is this as short as possible?

(b) the number of journeys. Would it be safer to make repeated journeys rather than a few demanding ones?

(c) how demanding the work is;

(d) whether the route is clear of obstacles, including doorways;

(e) whether the floor surface is well maintained;

(f) whether the task involves negotiating kerbs, steps or slopes. Full use should be made of ramps etc.

The initial forces used to overcome the object's inertia when starting or changing direction are usually higher than the sustained forces used to keep the object moving and should therefore be kept to a minimum. Frequent starting, stopping and manoeuvring should be avoided, as should jerky movements and high sustained forces. The risk of injury is also increased if pushing or pulling is carried out with the hands much below waist height or above shoulder height. Being able to adopt a comfortable, stable posture is important and twisted or bent postures should be avoided.

Additionally, when pushing and pulling forces are transmitted from the handler's feet to the floor, the risk of slipping and consequent injury is much greater. For this reason, pushing or pulling a load in circumstances where the grip between foot and floor is poor -- whether through the condition of the floor, footwear or both -- is likely to increase the risk of injury significantly.

Guidelines for pushing and pulling

For pushing and pulling operations (whether the load is slid, rolled or supported on wheels) the guideline figures assume the force is applied with the hands, between knuckle and shoulder height. It is also assumed that the distance involved is no more than about 20 m. If these assumptions are not met, a more detailed risk assessment is required (see the push/pull checklist in Appendix 4).




MEN WOMEN
Guideline figure for

stopping or starting a load 20 kg

(ie about 200 newtons) 15 kg

(ie about 150 newtons)
Guideline figure for

keeping the load in motion 10 kg

(ie about 100 newtons) 7 kg

(ie about 70 newtons)


As a rough guide the amount of force that needs to be applied to move a load over a flat, level surface using a well-maintained handling aid is at least 2% of the load weight. For example, if the load weight is 400 kg, then the force needed to move the load is 8 kg. The force needed will be larger, perhaps a lot larger, if conditions are not perfect (eg wheels not in the right position or a device that is poorly maintained). Moving an object over soft or uneven surfaces also requires higher forces. On an uneven surface, the force needed to start the load moving could increase to 10% of the load weight, although this might be offset to some extent by using larger wheels. Pushing and pulling forces will also be increased if workers have to negotiate a slope or ramp. Even where the guideline figures are met, a detailed risk assessment will be necessary if risk factors such as uneven floors, confined spaces, or trapping hazards are present.

There is no specific limit to the distance over which the load is pushed or pulled as long as there are adequate opportunities for rest or recovery. Refer to the push/pull checklist (see Appendix 4) if you are unsure and carry out a detailed risk assessment.

Appendix 4 Examples of assessment checklists for lifting and carrying and pushing and pulling

1 A suitable and sufficient risk assessment is required when hazardous manual handling is unavoidable. The assessment should identify where the risk lies and identify an appropriate range of ideas for reducing the potential for injury. A checklist can help with this process by applying a systematic examination of all the potential risk elements. To ensure that the assessment covers all potential risks the workforce should be fully involved in the risk assessment process.

2 Examples of basic checklists for lifting and carrying and pushing and pulling are included in this appendix. Their use will help to highlight the overall level of risk involved and identify how the job may be modified to reduce the risk of injury and make it easier to do. It will also be useful in helping to prioritise the remedial actions needed. The checklists may be copied freely or may be used to help design your own assessment checklist.

3 The following notes are intended to help you complete the checklist.

(a) SECTION A: DESCRIBE the job. There is space available for a diagram to be drawn to summarise the task in a picture, as well as for a written description.

(b) SECTION B: TICK the level of risk you believe to be associated with each of the items on the list. Space is provided for noting the precise nature of the problem and for suggestions about the remedial action that may be taken. It may also be useful to write down the names of the relevant people or groups in your organisation who you will wish to consult about implementing the remedial steps, for example managers, workforce trainers, maintenance personnel or engineers and relevant employees or their safety representatives.

If you are assessing a lifting, carrying or team-handling operation and need help in judging the level of risk, you can consider using the MAC (Appendix 5) to help you decide the risk levels to be entered in Section B of the checklist.

Some tasks may involve more than one operator, each with a different level of risk, depending on the exact nature of their duties. If you wish to use the same checklist for all of the operators involved, you can allocate a number (or other identifying mark) to each and use that against each tick. Alternatively you can use a separate checklist for each operator.

(c) DECIDE whether the overall risk of injury is low, medium or high. This will help to prioritise remedial action if you have a large number of risk assessments to carry out. Ring the appropriate word at the bottom of Section A after you have completed Section B.

(d) SECTION C: SUMMARISE the remedial steps that should be taken, in order of priority. The assessor's name, the name of the person responsible for carrying out any remedial action and the date by which such action should be completed should be recorded. Only once such action has been taken should the final column be completed. It may also be useful to enter the target date for reassessment if this is appropriate. Remember to check that any actions taken have the desired effect.

4 When all the manual handling tasks have been assessed, the completed checklists can be compared to help prioritise the most urgent actions. However, there are likely to be several ways to reduce the risks identified and some will be more effective than others. Action on those that can be implemented easily and quickly should not be delayed simply because they may be less effective than others.

5 A check should be carried out at a later date to ensure that the remedial action to remove or reduce the risk of injury has been effective.

6 Worked examples of risk assessments are included to show how the checklists might be used in practice.

7 The purpose of the checklists is to help bring out a range of ideas on how the risks identified can be avoided or reduced by making modifications to the load, the task, and the working environment. Many suggestions for reducing risks in particular situations are given in the text of this booklet. There are also a number of people who may be able to help with suggestions, for example safety representatives, the quality management team within the organisation, and relevant trade associations. There is also a great deal of other published information about risk-reduction methods.

Reference: L23 Manual handling: Manual Handling Operations Regulations 1992 (as amended), ISBN 9780 7176 2823 X, £8.95.

The following publications may also be useful:

- IND(G)143, Getting to grips with manual handling: a short guide for employers, free for a single copy

- HSG60, Work related upper limb disorders, ISBN 9780717604756, £4.75

- HSG115, Manual handling: solutions you can handle, ISBN 9780717606937, £7.95

- IND(G)90, If the task fits: ergonomics at work, free for a single copy

- IND(G)171, Aching arms (or RSI) in small businesses, free for a single copy

- INDG348, Mark a parcel - save a back, free for a single copy

- INDG383, Manual handling assessment charts, free for a single copy

- INDG398, Are you making the best use of lifting and handling aids, free for a single copy



The free leaflets referenced above are available to view and print from the HSE website: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/manlinde.htm



All of the publications referred to are available from HSE Books:

HSE Books

PO Box 1999,

Sudbury,

Suffolk, CO10 2WA.

Tel: 01787 881165

Fax: 01787 313995

Email: hsebooks@prolog.uk.com

http://www.hsebooks.com

Many of the free publications can also be downloaded from the HSE Website: http://www.hse.gov.uk

There are three methods of payment currently available from HSE Books:

1. Via the post, bank cheques/ postal orders made payable to HSE Books

2. Via the telephone, American Express, Master Card or Visa

3. Existing approved credit account customers may use the Banks Automated Clearing System

(BACS). However, new accounts are not being set up.

Multiple packs of the leaflets referenced are available. Pack prices can be obtained from HSE Books.



Additionally, the following organisation may be able to assist further:

Disability Rights Commission may be able to help you further.

Equality and Human Rights Commission (England - Disability)

FREEPOST MIDO 2164

Stratford-upon-Avon

CV37 9BR

Telephone: 08457 622 633

Textphone: 08457 622 644

Fax: 08457 778878

Email: englandhelpline2@equalityhumanrights.com

Internet: http://www.equalityhumanrights.com

As an information service we can only provide information in HSE legislation and associated guidance. For further advice/interpretation on the above subject you will need to contact your enforcing authority for health and safety.

The enforcing office which covers your workplace is dependent on the nature of the activities carried out at that workplace.

The HSE enforce over premises such as factories, building sites, mines, farms, fairgrounds, quarries, chemical plant, offshore and nuclear installations, schools and hospitals.

A map/list of all HSE regions is available on the web at:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/maps/index.htm

Alternatively, you can contact Infoline at the telephone number below and they will put you in contact with the relevant office.



The Environmental Health Department of the Local Authority enforce over premises such as retailing, some warehouses, most offices, hotels and catering, sports, leisure, consumer services and places of worship.

The telephone number for the Environmental Health Department of the Local Authority should be available from your local telephone directory.

Alternatively, the details of all local authorities can be found via the A-Z of local authorities facility of the following website: www.direct.gov.uk

I hope this helps, but if you require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact this address again or telephone HSE Infoline on 08453 450055.

Yours sincerely

Wendy Jean Payne

HSE Infoline

HSE is committed to maintaining your personal information in a manner that meets the requirements of the Data Protection Act 1998.

Sometimes, we may need to pass your details to another government department or public body so that they can help you with your enquiry.

HSE Infoline is provided by Connaught Compliance Services Ltd on behalf of HSE





Connaught plc is one of the UK's top 250 companies on the London Stock Exchange and the leading provider of integrated services operating in the compliance,

social housing and public sector markets.



Please visit our website to see a full list of Connaught's Registered Companies http://www.connaught.plc.uk/group/about ... dcompanies



Disclaimer:

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review,

retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.

If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this message.

Connaught plc, Head Office 01392 444546


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:29 am 
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So in short, what are they saying? :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:59 am 
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Darren63 wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
s/employed cant get SSP.....



Not sure how it works up your way but all "cabs", both hac and ph down here are self employed.

Seems more of a northern thing to employ drivers.


no, what i reffered to was the difference between a self-employed sole trader and one who had "incorporated" - or formed his own little ltd company, usually done to protect assets in times like we live in, in case he has, say, a house, and going bust could mean losing it.

so he "becomes" a ltd company (typically hes the MD and his wifes the company secreatary)

they are paid the most they can be without paying tax (£5250 each PA)

when he hurts his back and is off sick HMRC will pay him the SSP to the ltd company that isnt available from the deductions of the other employees, which is how it works.....

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:29 pm 
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In light of the DfT proposals what's needed now from the HSE is a specific reference to handling wheelchair passengers. I don't think the DfT make any reference to driver safety in their consultation document perhaps that can be included in the final provisions?

Regards

JD

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