Taxi Driver Online

Define regulating the hours, in my mind there could be a couple of scenarios.

That aside I still wonder how they expect it's reasonable for a proprietor to drive.........does Richard Branson drive his trains and fly his planes?

What's the money on this council not touching their byelaws?

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Noel Edmonds drives his taxi though.

The question has to be do they have bye-laws?

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

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I suspect, but I certainly don't know, that when the TPC 1847 was drafted, this was to protect the 'orse from being overworked by the proprietor or driver, who might have otherwise knackered the 'orse.

Now a knackered 'orse has a habit of just stopping & if a knackered 'orse stops in the middle of nowhere, with passengers on board the carriage, in the night, what were they supposed to do?

Walk home in the dark, holding a candle?

This is a 162 year old Act that is outdated & needs re-writing to reflect modern times.

But as it says what it says in the Act, this council has used it, quite legitimately it would seem, to restrict driver's hours.

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Brummie Cabbie.

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I cant see a problem

The restriction would actually encourage cherry-picking of shifts, thurs/friday/sat (boozers) nites then mon/tues/wed day shifts (shoppers/giros)

sorted

lol I suggest the term "and for regulating the hours within which they may exercise their calling" means they can tell a cab owner which hours the cab can be worked.

The model byelaws makes no reference to drivers hours.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

In respect of the transfer of a HC license.

Section 49 of the Local Government (Miscellaneous) Provisions Act 1976 requires a proprietor of a hackney carriage or private hire vehicle to notify the Council within 14 days, in writing, if he transfers his interest to another person. The notification must include the new proprietors name and address.

The matter was addressed in the court of appeal in the matter of R v Weymouth Borough Council, ex parte Teletax (Weymouth) Limited (1947). In this case his Lordship took the view that there was no power for the Council not to register the transfer.

Indeed the judge stated;

There is nothing in this Act which provides that the vehicle may not be sold, or may only be sold with the consent of the council. There is no provision here to say that, if a person has obtained a licence for a cab and disposes of it, or dies, he must surrender his licence. What is necessary is that the register should be kept in order and kept up to date.

Therefore, it seems to me that, by necessary implication, a person who buys a cab which has been licensed is under a duty to go to the authority and say: “I am now the proprietor of this cab which you licensed for a year. Please, therefore, enter me in the register as the proprietor, and enter my name on the licence granted in respect of the cab, instead of that of the earlier proprietor.”

Warriner v York City Council

In Warriner (above) the late JD states its about the transfer of a HC license, which on the face of it is only partically correct, its more about the LA renewing the license at the end of the licensing period......which of course is another argument.

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I suppose the DfT model bye-laws don't have to.

But what would happen in today's age if this council were to submit to the DfT such a bye-laws for addition to their existing bye-laws, not forgetting that all bye-laws have to be submitted to the DfT whose lawyers then approve them or not, send them back to the council, who then have to ratify any addition to the bye-laws at a FULL council meeting - not by the licensing committee.

This is my point; just because the TPC 1847 states that bye-laws may include, 'regulating the hours within which they may exercise their calling', does not mean that council's may arbitrarily impose such a condition, UNLESS they have had such a bye-law approved by the DfT lawyers & passed by a meeting of the full council.

In today's age I wonder if the DfT lawyers would approve such a bye-law & I also wonder whether the council have been through all these stages of implementation.

My guess is that they are not in the bye-laws, which makes these conditions unenforceable.

If they were in the bye-laws & the council had gone through all the proper proceedures, then we would all be 'up the creek without a paddle'.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
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I have read that & the judge's words confused me, because he put the onus on the 'new' proprietor, whereas the LG(MP) Act 1976 clearly puts the onus on the 'old' proprietor.

Thinking that the judge would not have interpreted the law incorrectly, I then assumed that he was quoting from the TPC 1847, which I re-read & it's not there; it's only in the 1976 Act.

Hence my question.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
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I'm not sure restricting the hours the cab works is the same as restricting the number of hours a cab works.

Also that rule would be pointless as drivers could have a number of different cabs if their hours were restricted.

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IDFIMH

If a cab company was jointly owned by two or more ( "ace taxis" ) and obtained a plate, would each of the owners be allocated 37 hours work or would ONLY 37 hours be availabe FOR THE PLATE to work?

That's the problem of limiting cab hours.

But one has to bear in mind in 1847 all cabs were pulled by horses, and they need to sleep. Hence the wording of the act.

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IDFIMH

was it not possible to change horses?

No they were limited.

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IDFIMH

The TPCA 1889 regulated horses or somthing like that

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1889/cukpga_18890014_en_1

Town Police Clauses Act 1889

1889 CHAPTER 14 52_and_53_Vict

An Act to amend the provisions relating to Hackney Carriages of the Town Police Clauses Act, 1847.

[24th June 1889]
.Annotations:
Modifications etc. (not altering text)
C1Act repealed as to public service vehicles by Road Traffic Act 1930 (c. 43), Sch. 5

C2Preamble omitted under authority of Statute Law Revision Act 1908 (c. 49)

C3Words of enactment omitted under authority of Statute Law Revision Act 1948 (c. 62), s. 3

C4This Act is not necessarily in the form in which it has effect in Northern Ireland

C5Act (as incorporated in Public Health Act 1875) extended (E.W.) by Transport Act 1985 (c. 67, SIF 126), s. 15(1)

Commencement Information

I1Act wholly in force at Royal Assent.
.1
Short title.This Act may be cited as the Town Police Clauses Act, 1889, . . . F1

Annotations:

Amendments (Textual)

F1

Words repealed by Statute Law Revision Act 1908 (c. 49)

.2 Construction of Act.(1)This Act shall be construed as one with the principal Act, and the expression “this Act” in the principal Act shall be construed to mean the principal Act as amended by this Act..

(2)This Act shall be deemed to be incorporated with the M1Public Health Act, 1875, by section one hundred and seventy-one of that Act..

Annotations:

Modifications etc. (not altering text)

C1

“the principal Act” means Town Police Clauses Act 1847 (c. 89)

Marginal Citations

M11875 c. 55.

.3 Defining “omnibus.” .The term “omnibus,” where used in this Act, shall include—

Every omnibus, char-a-banc, wagonette, brake, stage coach, and other carriage plying or standing for hire by or used to carry passengers at separate fares to, from, or in any part of the prescribed distance;

but shall not include—

Any tramcar or tram carriage [F1duly licensed under the provisions of the M1Tramways Act, 1870, or of any Provisional Order made thereunder and confirmed by Parliament, or under the provisions of any local Act of Parliament]:

Any carriage starting from and previously hired for the particular passengers thereby carried at any livery stable yard (within the prescribed distance) whereat horses are stabled and carriages let for hire, the said carriage starting from the said stable yard and being bona fide the property of the occupier thereof, and not standing or plying for hire within the prescribed distance:

Any omnibus belonging to or hired or used by any railway company for conveying passengers and their luggage to or from any railway station of that company, and not standing or plying for hire within the prescribed distance:

Any omnibus starting from outside the prescribed distance, and bringing passengers within the prescribed distance, and not standing or plying for hire within the prescribed distance.

Annotations:

Amendments (Textual)

F1Words in s. 3 repealed (E.W.S.) (26.2.1998) by Transport and Works Act 1992 (c. 42), ss. 68(1), Sch. 4 Pt.I; S.I. 1998/274, art. 2, Sch.

Marginal Citations

M11870 c. 78.

.4 Extending certain provisions of principal Act to omnibuses.(1)The several terms “hackney carriages,” “hackney coach,” “carriages,” and “carriage,” whenever used in sections thirty-seven, forty to fifty-two (both inclusive), fifty-four, fifty-eight, and sixty to sixty-seven (both inclusive) of the principal Act shall, notwithstanding anything contained in section thirty-eight of that Act, be deemed to include every omnibus..

(2)The word “driver” or “drivers” when used in any of the said sections of the principal Act shall be deemed to include every conductor of any omnibus..

(3)For the purposes of sections fifty-four, fifty-eight, and sixty-six of the principal Act, the fare, according to the statement of fares exhibited on any omnibus, shall be deemed to be the fare allowed by the principal Act or authorised by any byelaw under that Act..

5 Licences may be granted for short periods.Any licence may be granted under the principal Act to continue in force for such less period than one year as the Commissioners may think fit, and shall specify in the licence.

6 Byelaws .The Commissioners may from time to time make byelaws for all or any of the following purposes, that is to say:—

For regulating the conduct of the proprietors, drivers, and conductors of omnibuses plying within the prescribed distance in their several employments, and determining whether such drivers and conductors shall wear any and what badges:

For regulating the manner in which the number of each omnibus corresponding with the number of its licence shall be displayed:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . F1

For regulating the number and securing the fitness of the animals to be allowed to draw an omnibus, and for the removal therefrom of unfit animals:

For securing the fitness of the omnibus and the harness of the animals drawing the same:

For fixing the stands for omnibuses and the points at which they may stop a longer time than is necessary for the taking up and setting down of passengers desirous of entering or leaving the same:

For securing the safe custody and re-delivery of any property accidentally left in any omnibus, and fixing the charge to be made in respect thereof:

To provide for the carrying and the lighting of proper lamps for denoting the direction in which the omnibus is proceeding, and promoting the safety and convenience of the passengers carried thereby:

To provide for the exhibition on some conspicuous part of every omnibus of a statement in legible letters and figures of the fares to be demanded and received from the persons using or carried for hire in such omnibus:

To prevent within the prescribed distance—

(a)the owner, driver, or conductor of any omnibus, or any other person on their or his behalf, by touting, calling out, or otherwise, from importuning any person to use or to be carried for hire in such omnibus, to the annoyance of such person or of any other person;.

(b)the blowing of or playing upon horns or other musical instruments, or the ringing of bells, by the driver or conductor of any omnibus, or by any person travelling on or using any such omnibus..

Provided that nothing in this Act contained shall empower the Commissioners to fix the site of the stand of any omnibus in any railway station, or in any yard adjoining or connected therewith, except with the consent of the railway company owning such site.

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

In Brum at the turn of the 19th to 20th century there were livery stables, one in Bristol Street & one at the bottom of Sheepcote Street. There is no trace left of the one in Bristol Street, but the building & yard of the one in Sheepcote Street is still there.

So 'orses could be changed in those times, but I suspect when the TPC 1847 became law, this was not possible.

But I wasn't around then, so I don't really know. I wonder if hours restrictions were impossed in those days & if anyone transgressed & was summonsed by the courts.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
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