Taxi Driver Online

I think you have been reading too much of Cab Trade News. I suggest you ring the LO to get the facts.

But say you were right, then so what? If drivers can't earn a living out of the trade, then they should leave it. That's what happens in the real world.

The bit I can't work out though is if Liverpool is, or was, so bad, then why are plates going for £30,000 plus? And why are journeymen charged £350 a week to rent a motor.

I wonder how much the rent would be if Liverpool de-limited?

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IDFIMH

And there is the crux of the issue, it matters not the amount of vehicles, it's the drivers that count.

However a stiff knowledge is a million times better than quotas, because if people are willing to commit to the knowledge, then they will get a plate.

But if you have quotas, it doesn't matter a jot how committed new entrants are to the trade, cos the likes of owners in Liverpool and Manchester will just leech of them.

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IDFIMH

Well 70% (and increasing) of the country run a decent cab service without retrictions.

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IDFIMH

I suspect your 3,000 figure is rubbish, but in any case in unrestricted areas of course plates will be handed back, that's just what happens in the real world as people go in and out of jobs.

But coming back to the original point, how many plates have been handed back since things were apparently so bad in Liverpool that numbers had to be restricted? The answer is probably: none.

Anyway, as has been said elsewhere it's the number of drivers that's usually the problem, not the number of plates, and the Liverpool trade still wants to increase the number of taxis on the streets by licensing more drivers, so rank space and the like is presumably a red herring to maintain the plate premiums. And the licensing lapdogs in Liverpool are helping to recruit more drivers, as per the other thread.

ONE guy in a town the size of Bolton returned a plate and this was the reason for restricting again?

You're 'avving a larff, ain't ya?

If 10% of plates were returned each year it wouldn't be surprising, in the real world at least.

I don't understand the second part of your first sentence.

What I actually said was:

"OK, so you listed about 1% of the economy or so that is... numerically restricted, so what about the other 99%?"

I've highlighted the most important word - the kind of restrictions you are talking about are numerical, which simply doesn't apply to things like restaurants or house building.

Of course, all legitimate businesses are subject to regulation of some kind or other, but the point is that numerical controls per se are exceptional.

I could go through the Yellow Pages and make a list of businesses that aren't numerically controlled, but this would be time consuming and pointless.

Well, not quite the same thing. New York drivers are renowned for being crap, and not knowing where they're going, as compared to London. New York plates are worth $250,000, so restrictions here haven't really benifitted anyone, except plate holders of course.

Second, the restrictions you are talking about relate to control of the vehicle, which is not the same as controlling drivers. At least London drivers gain from their hard graft, whereas the excess profits from restricting plate numbers is unearned.

Moreover, plate restrictions do not help plateless drivers, they just pay the inflated rentals so that they can work.




I can't disagree with that, but I can't really see your point. But in any case, in restricted cities like Manchester, the taxis do not service the poorer areas there either, as outlined by Graham Stringer MP at the Trans Comm meeting, and agreed by the Manchester reps. Of course, he was trying to make the point that only PH service such areas, whereas he was unwittingly underlining the fact that in many restricted cities taxis cherry pick which areas they want to serve, and turn their noses up at the rest.

Mr Cheshire my good friend. Pray tell what prompted you to say that Liverpool had 3000 cabs and 50% of licence holders handed back their licence. Liverpool to my knowledge has never had 3000 licenced drivers let alone 3000 cabs. In 1971 they had 300, when did the numbers go to 3000? It could be said lifting figures off the top of ones head may lighten ones load a little but it would benefit us all if you stick to producing accurate figures.

Manchester's fleet of cabs is average and Liverpool’s is woeful. Liverpool Cabs have always had a reputation for being Sheds. In the 70’s and 80’s, practically every one of them was shed's. I suspect your memory might not go back that far. In 2006 Manchester are bringing in new rules with regard to the age of Cabs but they are not ambitious. There are a great many councils throughout the UK who have a far stricter policy on age than Manchester.

There wasn’t that many people about for the 96 Euro Championships or the commonwealth games in fact during the commonwealth games the majority of the night clubs closed at the usual time of 2 am. The expected night trade during the week was very poor indeed considering it was a major event.

The 4 am closing for the European championship did indeed make it better for us but there was still the Fri/Sat mad rush at 2 A.M.

You fail to mention that these events took place when the Students were absent. Manchester is practically a ghost town during the summer months apart from weekends. When you lose 50 thousand students, it makes a big dent in ones income. The Commonwealth games were a disaster for the night men.

With regard to planning permission, every structure ever built needs planning permission so that reference is inappropriate. It has nothing whatsoever to do with artificial restrictions.

In most cases, it is not the planners who object to a new business starting up, it is the local competition. Does that sound familiar?

And with regard to chemists those restrictions only came into being in 1987 or thereabouts and the OFT report of 2003 slated the practice and said it should be done away with. The resulting factor is that the Government has stated that any pharmacy that wishes to open for 100 hours or more can do so. Pharmacies can also open in large shopping complexes as long as the complex is at least 15,000 sq. metres in size.

So, your reference to chemists is outdated. I'm surprised for a man of your accuracy that this small point slipped your memory.

Best wishes

JD

sounds like someone has been reading NTTG propaganda.

regards

Captain cab

I have NEVER said that Manchester should stay restricted because they have the 2nd best fleet in the country.
I said that this is result of restriction.That the drivers are able to replace their vehiclers and keep them properly serviced etc.
The councils that insist on Brand New Vehicles only require New vehicles for new plates but its what happens afterwards that matters.
How long before these vehicles will be replaced ?
A long time if they are not earning enough.

Of Course the rent would fall but with more Cabs/drivers on the road the drivers take home would not rise that much and might even fall.
That is basic economics.
Additionally,overcharging would become common, vehicle quality would deteriorate, driver quality would go down the tube and there would be many uninsured drivers about with bald tyres.
This is exactly what happened in Liverpool.
A lot of drivers became part time.......working in factories (which are no longer there) during the week and driving cabs on the week end.
After this drivers did not renew their badges or their MOTs and eventually abandoned their taxis on streets.

Every business is Numerically restricted its just done in a round about way.
Restaurants (with some exceptions like the curry mile in Manchester) have ''volume'' restrictions. i.e. you are only allowed to have 15% of the retail space for restaurants or take-aways.
Effectively once this 15% is used up you cannot open another place.
House building is the same..............they use excuses like over-development etc.
Try and open even a fish & chip shop in Prestbury.
There is none there at the moment yet you wont get planning.
You will get some excuse or other, which amounts to the same thing.

maybe they did not reach 3,000. But,I amonly going by figures given to me by other drivers.
The point I am making is that Liverpool have been down that road and turned back. Why did they turn back ?


I disagree and LTI will agree with me. Currently they are selling more new cabs in Manchester than ever before


My point here is that as soon as the 2 a.m. rush is removed on fridays/saturdays cabs will cope with the demand as it will be staggered.



Just another reason to restrict, surely !!


Opening for 100 hours over six days/nights means some 16 hours per day.
Since no Pharmacist is going to work 16 hour days (unlike some cab drivers !) it will require at least 2 qualified persons to keep this business running.
At the cost of 40,000 pounds each it becomes unviable so its a no no anyway.
Another way of keeping restrictions !
Yes,developments of more than 15,000 sq metres etc.......
How many of these are sited near Doctors surgeries ?
None that I know of.....
Again a red herring............Successful pharmacists are located near or in doctors surgeries or health centres.
None are open 100 hours or bigger than 15,ooo sq.m.
In fact most GPs are now working mon-fri only.

Well I thank you for being magnanimous and admitting that your data on the Liverpool cab trade came from a third party. It would have been more appropriate if you would have acknowledged that fact from the beginning because most people in this forum are able to define fact from fiction at the drop of a hat.

With regard to Chemists you probably pass one every day on Oxford street, which opens 100 a week. What’s more it has been there for years?

More Chemists with longer opening hours serves the public far better than one who only opens nine to five. Nine am until one am is 16 hours, that is not overbearing when utilising a two eight-hour shift pattern.

The whole point of the OFT report is that the practice is un-competitive and works against public interest. They said it stifled innovation and restricted services. The Government was in favour of totally lifting restrictions but they succumbed to pressure from the very people to whom those restrictions benefited most.

With regard to a complex of 15 thousand sq. metres or more being able to set up a pharmacy I will remind you that every large supermarket and shopping centre in the country fits into that category.

Not only will these new Pharmacy outlets be able to offer a more competitive service they will also be open longer hours and in places where people frequently shop.

I don't know if you or any member of your family has ever been in urgent need of pain relief at an unsociable hour but there are many that have and chemists being open longer hours can only be beneficial to the public, or don't you see it that way?

Best wishes.

JD

I disagree. Surely it's best that all the money went on the up keep and purchase of the vehicle, instead of the purchase of a plate.

Those councils, in the main, insist that all replacement vehicles are brand new. In other words, not just for newly issue plates, but for the existing fleet also.

Go on, give Birmingham a ring.

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IDFIMH