Taxi Driver Online

Didn't you accuse Jasbar of selective editing? You have just cut up posts from three different people and re-arranged them to suit yourself.


Agreed.
All plates should be returned to the council when the driver retires/ leaves the trade. (For the avoidance of doubt, I mean retire from taxi driving)
I'd go further and limit the amount held in company names and I would bar individuals who don't have a taxi badge from holding a plate.
Only when this has been done would I allow any restriction of numbers.



Bollux.
Plates have value in every restricted area. The value ranges from several tens of thousands down to a packet of fags or a fish supper, depending on how many plates there are and how much work.
Restriction not only allows this to happen - it causes it. Nobody will pay to buy what they could fill in a form and obtain for free.
I find it laughable that you think otherwise but please elaborate.
Even in derestricted areas like mine there is value in a plate, depending on the type......saloons are limited and they have value.



Why should I?
I am not everyone and I'm not aware of what everyone has said.



Then you are wrong. This is market forces at work. Even if you don't like to think so.



Since in your own words, you have told everyone many times over that you don't agree with derestriction and you don't think it works, and that nobody is listening, I thought you might be happy to know that we have noticed what you are saying.
We just don't think your vast experience of the Wirral PH trade is relevant.
This is another country with seperate law to yours.
Also by your own admission, your not a taxi driver and you don't care.
Well we are and we do.


So if your making money, why complain?
If you don't need the money, why do it?

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Toots is one of these people who doesn't rely on the trade for a living, comes out when it suits her and then complains about full-time drivers cherry-picking their hours

Surprised she's not also advocating restricting PH plate numbers so she can then take it a bit easier and force plateless drivers into her vehicle, telling them what shifts they can work then preaching the virtues of double-shifting etc.

After all, there are plently like that in the HC trade

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Caledonian Cabbie

A comment is not a complaint, is it I didn't say I didn't need the money, I said I wasn't dependant on the money. I could increase the hours I work in the family business if the money wasn't to be made driving. I choose not to increase my hours in the family business because I like being a ph driver, I like working within this trade and like all the differences of opinions on how things are or should be, I find it all very interesting that's not a crime is it.

Btw I'll be damn lucky if I have the last word

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

You know what I'm a bit pi$$ed that you have a go at me because I don't rely on the trade anymore for a living. This is only because I do 3 jobs, self employed in all of them and can increase hours in whichever one I please. I've made this situation for me working hard and studying hard so now I reap the benefits. Yes I do work the hours that suit me, I work nights because I don't like all the day time traffic.

I don't complain about drivers cherry picking hours, I once commented that since derestriction you can only get taxis on the ranks at certain times and days here, thus creating an unmet demand which is now covered by ph, which defeats the object of derestriction imo.

I'd never advocate restricting ph plate numbers, but, again it wouldn't bother me if they did. I have to say tho I don't think it's right that operator companies take on drivers when they don't have enough work for them without the driver working very long hours. I think it's a prime cause of pirating and some family breakdowns.

With regard to double shifting, isn't it the vehicle that's double shifted and not the driver, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at? I wouldn't force anybody to do anything they didn't want to, it's simple really if you don't like it don't do it, it's not rocket science is it I didn't like working in a WAV so to work in a saloon I moved over to ph, problem solved. Until such time as saloons are accepted as suitable vehicles for HC here, which I don't think will ever happen, I will continue in the PH trade. I'm not going to apologise for earning a living the best way I know how and without creating a fuss cos I wanted something I couldn't have i.e saloon taxis

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

You've never driven in a de restricted area have you?? You've got a lot of learning to do before you demand the doors to be opened wide.

You've only got to look at the Councils all over the UK who have closed to doors after de regulation because taxis were parked up all over the joint.

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Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Believe me, don't get Mercury X2

Without restriction there is no artificial plate shortage premium to sell.

When companies are transferred and the plates with it, the company itself is worthless without the plate.

There is no goodwill, because the "premises" are not fixed. There is no passing trade. There is no individual market, just the share of the greater market, which the licence allows you to dip into.

So, it's Gusmac who is correct here.

And, according to the council, the Law IS being enforced. The Council maintains that what is happening is legal, and will continue to do so until challenged.

We're challenging them.

Also, with market forces, those who should be leaving the trade are those who can't hack it. Those who can't maintain their position in the market. That's what happens normally.

Now, this may seem harsh, but it is precisely what keeps markets efficient. Its's the way the system operates, and until another system is in place, is precisely what should happen in our market. We should all operate under the same conditions.

Couldn't be Toots that you and the other guys getting into a frazzle over de-restriction have simply recognised that they couldn't hack it and it is fear that prevents them from recognising that it is restriction and control by the vested interests benefitting from that restriction which is destroying our trade?

I agree with that, but, the law doesn't allow plates to be sold. If it was no longer allowed to transfer plates then you would effectively stop the selling of plates. So it's not restriction that allows this it's the lack enforcement in the law and not closing the loophole they all use.



Premises do not have to be fixed to have goodwill. It's your customer base that forms the goodwill, it's the customers and the work you obtain and keep because of the good service you provide.





Well I hope you win



I know what happens normally, but, in the taxi trade drivers just work longer and longer hours. You want more time with your family, how much time do you think you're gonna get when you have to work longer hours than you do now?



How can you say that I have recognised that I couldn't hack it. I'm the one doing exactly what I want, when I want. I've well and truely cracked it. Like I said after having a go in a WAV and looking closely at both sides of the trade I realised in just isn't worth the effort to be a taxi driver in a flooded derestricted market. I don't live to work, I work to live and I make no apologies for it either. I think there are other things than restriction that will ruin this trade. Anyway you've had my opinon, end of

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

You changed the context here. My answer was not in response to this question.



I wouldn't rule it out but there would need to be a compelling case for it.
I believe with proper quality control of drivers and vehicles, along with the removal from the market of the exploiters and hangers on, there would be no need for a blunt restriction of numbers.



We are close to agreement here, believe it or not.
Restriction creates the value. Without the restriction, there is no value.
The law allows it, feeds it and lets it grow but without the restriction, it wouldn't exist in the first place.
Even if the law didn't allow it, value would still exist for those prepared to flout the law.



But there is demand, toots. Just not as much as you might like.
If there was no demand, you would all be doing zero fares and making no money.
The market has found it's level. It's just not as high a level as you or others might want.
The fact is that those within the market choose to tolerate the level of earnings they are making.
If they didn't, they would move on or go bust.
That's market forces.



I'm not noted for my charm.
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here.
The fact your PH trade is directly affected by what happens in your local hack trade, gives you a vested interest toots.
You may not recognise it but it is still a fact.



A comment is sometimes a complaint. Depends on what is said and how often. That aside, if it's not a complaint I will accept that.

As to your family business, would your increasing your hours there increase the profitability by an amout which would justify your extra hours? or would someone else loose hours to accomodate you?



Yes, my ex used to say that as well.
In the end I let her. It was just easier that way.............

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Not as pished off as those relying on the trade as their only incomce but hear people who work like yourself in the HC trade and who don't rely on the job but because there are too many cars operating manage to get the number of vehicles limited, adding insult to injury.

I have no particular problem with your three jobs, but it's surely a bit brass necked to then tell HC drivers that they can't run their own vehicle because there's 'too many taxis'?

But unfortunately your own situation demonstrates one of the problems leading to poor earnings, namely the amount of people just doing he job to supplement their pension, 'proper' job etc.

I know such people with HCs in restricted areas, for example, who do the job merely as second or even third fiddle to their main income, but full time drivers are forced to either drive for them or pay an inflated sum for a plate.

There's surely something wrong there?



,

In fact I'm quite sure you did



Oh aye, that was the "HC drivers won't come out when people are crying out for taxis and instead prefer to work when there's an oversupply of vehicles" argument.



But HC circuits and owners do just the same, so why shaft people further by allowing some to control the tools of the trade?



My point is that it's making a virtue of forcing drivers into someone else's car and having to work nights to pay the inflated rentals.



Except in relation to running an HC.



So you claim to do as you please, but if others can't do likewise in accordance with your Holy Grail of restricted numbers you tell them they can do one?

Do as Toots says, not as Toot does.




Ditto



So you'd prevent others operating a WAV HC even though it doesn't suit you

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Caledonian Cabbie

It used to be my only income until about 2 years ago, things change. I don't know what others do, but, I know I don't try to restrict anybody. My comments regarding derestriction are just an opinion



I've never said anybody can't do it. I've given my opinion regarding restricted and derestricted trade. I don't believe derestriction works, managed growth is better.



I like the variety at the moment but I don't drive ph to supplement anything. All 3 jobs together make up my required earnings. If any of the jobs stop performing the way I need them to I'll simply bin that job and concentrate on the others. I make no excuse for making money the way I do



There is something wrong there I agree, but, I still think derestriction isn't the answer. I wish I did have an answer to this problem I really do, but, I don't



I see your point, I see every point everybody makes, but, I don't have to agree with it. Nobody is forced into renting a vehicle. They choose to do the job with it's current conditions. It has it's problems that obviously need solving, derestriction is like taking a sledge hammer to crack a monkey nut



No that's not why I'd do it, if I did do it. The point I was trying to make, and I think you know this because you ain't stupid, is there are always options available if the current situation doesn't suit you. Whether somebody chooses to exercise their option is entirely up to them



You answered a question I asked Jasbar



You're describing derestriction, so what compelling case would there be to restrict numbers?



If the law did what it should do, if it was ever changed in the manner described previously, than that also should prevent a value on plates. If the penalty for breaking the law was such that the people involved lost the money made from selling the plate (much like drug dealers are) and also the plate was returned to the council, that would be a decent deterent wouldn't it?



I realise there is a demand, I'm not completely blonde ffs. The demand is fine for me. What I obviously haven't got across is when I say 'I don't need' I'm not gloating or bragging it's because I only have to worry about me. No family, no mortgage and very low living costs. I'm lucky I know that but there are guys out there in my area having to work stupid hours to earn a decent living and I don't think that's right. They don't tolerate the level of earnings by choice, it's a case of having to. You say they would move on, move on to where? the dole queue? or go bust, well that's not a good thing either when you have a family and a mortgage. It's far easier to work longer hours which is what most drivers do in a derestricted area

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Dundee ... undee.html

Can't really be bothered replying in detail Toots, but there's one massive contradiction there, surely?

One minute it's like it or lump it, but further down the post it's a case of drivers having little choice but to like it - they're not in a position to lump it.

Which is indeed a carbon copy of a debate we had a few weeks ago, if I remember correctly.

And why do you want PH ops to be limited in the number of vehicles they take on? That's hardly consistent with your first quote above.

And you say you aren't advocating the restriction of PH vehicle numbers, but your proposal would just be doing just that, albeit in a roundabout way.

And the bottom line is that you make a good case for doing what suits you, but as regard people running their own HC if they want and if they meet the requisite standard, you clearly think otherwise.

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Caledonian Cabbie

So instead of driving an HC is an unrestricted market you've 'cracked it' by driving a PH in an unrestricted market.

But if drivers would prefer the alternative of HC then you think they shouldn't be afforded that option.

And despite 'cracking it' through your own choice of PH, you want to limit the number of PHs by the backdoor.

What would happen if the Tootsmobile was deemed surplus to requirements under your PH proposal?

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Caledonian Cabbie

First time I've seen Dundee and Birkenhead mentioned in the same sentence

Must be something to do with taxi derestriction, eh Toots?

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Caledonian Cabbie

Humble apologies.
I didn't realise that you only wanted Jasbar's opinion. Silly me

I'll just let you continue your private chat with Jasbar and hope nobody else foolishly mistakes this for an open forum.
That way you won't feel compelled to twist their answers in order to misrepresent their views.

BTW, I did say you would have the last word.
Trying to debate with you reminds me of herding cats....................pointless in the extreme.

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