Taxi Driver Online

The following story appeared in taxitalk a couple of issues ago, what are your thoughts?


A third way? Or the next Battle?

By

The Reiver

'Politics' is made up of two words. 'Poli,' which is Greek for many,
and 'tics,' which are bloodsucking insects.
Quote attributed to Vidal Gore.

People often tell me their Licensing Authorities are considering deregulating numbers control of hackneys. It would seem to me, firstly, that we now have a new word, 'delimit,' although it is more accurate that deregulate, it has one key advantage, it is different to that nasty Conservative term of 'deregulate,' the end result, however is the same, more taxis. Obviously, spin-doctors at a local level have had their dictionaries and thesauruses out for a few years now.

On a national level taxis are a political problem, one could actually envisage the government coming up with a screwed up new licensing system, one with three tiers. This would try to ensure we had a fully accessible wheelchair hackney fleet, a private hire fleet that was private hire as we currently know it for 18 hours per day, but one that could legally ply for hire at throwing out time, with the third tier, a full time private hire fleet, that is actually executive cars and limousines. I didn't come up with this idea all by myself, a friend did actually mention it to me in an email, of course the best journalists in the world tend to keep their sources closely guarded, but as I realise the guy will be reading this. However, he may of course, given the editor's permission, do an article for us all.

Initial thoughts are that a third tier is unacceptable, however you must consider we have in many areas a virtual third tier already. The same hackney trade say that delimitation is unacceptable, then ignore private hire picking up during periods they cannot cope. I'm very sorry to wake you people up, but we cannot have it both ways, we are very often the first people to point out that private hire, when illegally plying for hire, are not insured, we say this when, of course, it suits us. Double standards I think you call it?

It has been blatantly obvious that in some areas there are not enough taxis, the very price of the hackney licence premium tells you this, yet the trade through greed and the potential loss of the premium, fights delimitation.

The trade have been quite vociferous in their attacks on ambulance cars and American stretched limousines for being unlicensed, a revamped system that would include these vehicles would seem to be a sensible route, alleviating the fears of the hackney trade and the general public alike.

In all of this, if the government are considering a third tier, it is surely an indictment of delimitation and deregulation, it would seem to say to all intents and purposes that deregulation is a misconceived and failed route for local authorities to follow, as it does not work.

As a conspiracy theorist, it would seem to me, coming so close from the OFT report that there has been a degree of pressure from the private hire trade and operators. Face facts, and if you read my article last month one of the biggest losers in delimitation are private hire operators. Hackney carriage drivers, when self employed, are free spirits, working the hours they choose and not the radio circuits preferred hours, often switching off radios and data systems, preferring to work ranks. The loyalty of the hackney owner to the radio circuit is obviously less than a private hire owner-driver, who needs the umbrella of the private hire operator and the operator's licence. The majority of new hackney owners, when delimitation takes place, come across from private hire - is one inescapable fact of delimitation.

It could well be that a third tier, one that will permit PHVs under a special licence to ply for hire during a specified period of a few hours during peak-time, would be to the ultimate advantage of PHV operators, and indeed to the hackney trade, as it will keep the majority of licensed vehicles under operator control.

At a time when one so called trade group had apparently gone back to sleep after the OFT. Another part of the trade is in turmoil because their 'magnum opus' has been all but destroyed, and others are so blind to the reality of the trade, that they prefer not to make comment either way, wait, and then blame everyone else`. It would seem that we need a national body to step into the breach and ask the relevant people if this is being considered or mooted around Whitehall, I sincerely hope that body would be the NTA. If this is being considered, then as a profession do we support it or castigate it, moreover, are we in a position to say anything?

I leave it to you to decide

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I think the Gov are quite worried about getting the blame if the new licensing laws lead to bundles of aggro.

All they want to do is get the rubbish folk off the street, and the good folk away from the rubbish.

A third tier may seem a good idea to those who know jack poo about our trade, but if there is un-met taxi demand, then meet it with 100% taxis and de-limit.

_________________
IDFIMH

Then you'll just get ph unmet demand.

Single tier policies are even less likely to work than a three tier system, but you don't care about sevicing the consumer, your only worried about what plate you have on the back of the car.

If single tier was the intention of the government why has it spent millions inplimenting PH licensing in London.

Look beyond your own greed.

B. Lucky

You have mentioned this before, and I'm afraid it still isn't relevant.

You get un-met taxi demand even in some de-limited areas. The only way in those areas that you can get more taxis licensed, is to weaken standards.

Is that what you want?

If it wasn't for the sheer stupidity, and greed, of taxi owners in the 60's and 70's, then there wouldn't be any PH, apart from a few exec vehicles.

So any PH un-met demand, is in fact taxi demand that hasn't been met for the last 30 or 40 years.

_________________
IDFIMH

"It would seem to me, firstly, that we now have a new word, 'delimit,' although it is more accurate that deregulate, it has one key advantage, it is different to that nasty Conservative term of 'deregulate,' "

I think the word "liberalisation" best describes the issues, whether for or against, thats what some want and some don't want.

i think PH demand would still grow the way it has. a lot has changed since the 60's and 70's. i remember when i was a kid we had to ask the next door neighbour if we needed to use a phone in a hurry and not walk 1/2 mile up the road to the phone box.

these days someone can sit in a bar / resturant, phone for a PH on their mobile and have the company phone / text them back saying its at the front door waiting.

times have changed, tecnology has moved on, it's time the taxi laws (both HC & PH) caught up with it.

lol GA first thing in the morning you better tell the T&G this, because they dont seem to know it yet.



I think thats what the article is stating, if you come from a labour contolled council who are issuing more licences they tend to lable to point that they are delimiting. Wheras tory contolled councils dont really give a toss.



a number of judges have stated the same steveo, perhaps you have a new career in the offing?


The point the article makes is that there are vehicles outside the remit of licensing, such as limo's, hospital cars etc, these would be brought in as purely private hire

existing private hire would move into a catagory of licensing that would allow them to ply for hire at times of peak demand, but reverting to private hire at other times.

existing hackneys would be hackneys all the time.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad thing, it has plus points it has minuses, but it stimulates debate, dont it sussex

Captain cab

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

and what of hackneys that also do PH radio / data work to supplement what they are not earning off the ranks?

aint my idea

Captain cab

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Mick,

I dont want to repeat arguments youve had, over issues, but as I have said many times before there are more parts of this countrys land mass without taxis and private hire than with.

When you talked of taxibank going national I scoffed, still do its rubbish.

you see its not possible, hard to imagine all those cabs in gateshead could move and they could take 300 everynight easily in other parts, Cheshire is an example.

I have a mountain of requests in my in tray asking for taxibus services, I have started writing to develop some of them but it would take at least 6 years to get service up and running.

because first the councils need educating and that takes time, ph unmet demand yes in most of the u.k.

Even now I suspect the word "Deregulate" is the word that most people in the trade are most familiar with.

The courts even refer to it to this day and in the early years of legal challenges it was the only word attributted to the lifting numbers control.

It has been pointed out in the past, that the word "derugulate" is not the right definition and that the proper definition should be delimitation or de-restriction. In the past I have always used the word deregulation when talking about the lifting of numbers control but because of this site I have come to use the term de-restiction or delimitation more frequently.

I've never been a politicaly correct type of person so I'm comfortable with either word but one thing I have noticed is that Councils now use the word de-limitation or de-restriction on a more regular basis.

As for the rest of the article regarding a third tier licensing system, it is an interesting concept but I would hope any future legislation by the Government would try to simplify licensing, rather than make it more complex.

Best wishes

JD

JD, my thoughts too, but should we encapsulate stretched limo's with more than the usual number of seats permitted under PH law and perhaps all the vehicles currently excluded under the present system?

regards

Captain cab

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I would suggest that at times of peak demand for HC, PH offices are struggling to cope with the demands of their own customers.

Here's a suggestion, increase the penalties on illegally plying for hire. Then these PH bandits who drop their own customers in the [edited by admin] all the time will think about what they are doing.

I wonder what would happen to the HC trade if the PH trade took home everyone they took out on a Friday and Saturday night.

It amazes me that people so anti "queue jumping" are so concerned about those people trying to jump the queue at the rank, sometimes even offering a premium on the metered fare.

God forbid they would ever drop their principles and pick them up, or suggest that laws are changed to allow PH to do so.

B. Lucky

true. you wont belive the number of times i've had people pleding with me to let them in the car and offering to pay double. just because they dont want to wait at a rank or phone our office.

i wonder what the europeans make of all this, ive been to spain where you can phone for a taxi flag one down or go to the rank and get one, and it could be the same car and driver in all three cases, and the same thing probably happens in every other european country when you look at the industry in this country it all looks a bit backward hackneys running to conditions set out in 1874 and private hire in 1976 its about time it had a kick into the 21st century and every one run to a set of conditions set out in 2005.
I also have the problem being a private hire driver of the public pestering me to take them home for double the fare.
york council are trying to educate the public by outlining the difference between private hire and public hire, but i dont think they care, all they want to do is get home after a night out wether its in a hackney or private hire vehicle