Taxi Driver Online

I've never read that section so closely and the reference to refusing to drive from 'any street' could possibly relate to being flagged down, or hailed as in 1847?

BUT IT DOES NOT SAY THAT IN THE TPC 1847!!!

So the inference is that you might be standing in a street, which in 1847 at least, would not have been illegal.

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Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

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Don't be a prat you said "So if I drive up and down the prom here it's illegal."

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Grandad,

Yes they most certainly do!!


No, it most certainly isn't touting AND it is specifically excluded in the 'taxi touts' section, section 167 of The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994.


Correct!!


Yes and no!!

Yes to everything, with the exception of the last phrase.

Whilst the insurance certificate will not stipulate which area you are insured for, the public hire policy document, and for that matter every motor insurance policies document in the land, does not and will not cover you for an illegal act. So I can see a potential prosecution for not being insured, IF a Hackney Carriage picks up illegally off a street anywhere other than within its own licensed area.


The return booking is pre-booked; there is no problem there.


I don’t agree; it contravenes The TPC 1847.

But it’s complicated and involves several sections of that Act taken together.

I will expand fully in a later post; soon. LONG, long complicated post to come.


Never mind ‘does not necessarily mean’!!

It most certainly does not mean and is specifically excluded by section 167 of The CJandPO Act 1994.

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Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

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Disagree with other members' views;
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Oh no I'm not.

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IDFIMH

You can quote all the bylaws and touting laws you want but as a hackney driver myself at least 50 % of my work is not of a rank.On a saturday night i very rarely do a job of a rank and no its not prebooked work..I work soley of the streets.

Sussex.

Showing you are for hire whilst not parked up on a rank is what 'touting' is.

The circumstances of the offence are mitigation/aggravating features, not a defence.

Not always true i could be sat outside a hotel waiting for a prebooked job ?Or am i just sat there plying for hire? Try proving that in court,it wouldnt be touting i know that.

Standing and plying for hire, other than on a taxi stand, is contravening byelaw No. 7 of the DfT's model Hackney Carriage byelaws. And Hackney Carriage drivers are governed by byelaws.

From the DfT [July 2005]

HACKNEY CARRIAGE BYELAWS

Guidance notes and model byelaws

1. The purpose of this guidance note is to assist local licensing authorities in England who are considering making hackney carriage byelaws under section 68 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847.
2. As a first step, licensing authorities will want to consider whether their regulatory objectives - in terms of exerting controls over taxi owners and drivers - can best be achieved by attaching conditions to licences or by making byelaws. Conditions can be attached to hackney carriage vehicle licences by virtue of section 47 of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976.
3. It appears to have been accepted amongst local licensing authorities that the judgment in the case of Wathan v Neath and Port Talbot CBC [2002 EWHC 1634] established a principle that there was no power available in law to attach conditions to a hackney carriage driver's licence.

The DfT's model Hackney Carriage byelaw No. 7 states;

7. The driver of a hackney carriage shall, when plying for hire in any street and not actually hired -
(a) proceed with reasonable speed to one of the stands appointed by the Council;
(b) if a stand, at the time of his arrival, is occupied by the full number of carriages authorised to occupy it, proceed to another stand;
(c) on arriving at a stand not already occupied by the full number of carriages authorised to occupy it, station the carriage immediately behind the carriage or carriages on the stand and so as to face in the same direction; and
(d) from time to time, when any other carriage immediately in front is driven off or moved forward cause his carriage to be moved forward so as to fill the place previously occupied by the carriage driven off or moved forward.

So you drive round until you find a space on a taxi stand. Nowhere does it state that you should do otherwise.

_________________
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Brummie Cabbie.

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Disagree with other members' views;
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AND ALSO;



AND ALSO;



AND ALSO


OH YES YOU ARE!!!

You should know better Mr Sussex.

From my computer archives I offer the following;

What exactly is a taxi tout?

A tout is someone who acts "in a public place to solicit persons to hire vehicles to carry them as passengers". Typically they operate in mainline railway stations, airports or other busy public places, and offer a cheaper than standard fare - although invariably the fare finally paid is many times the standard rate. Also touting may invalidate any insurance they may have - and as the touts and drivers are acting illegally it is unlikely they will have specialist hire-and-reward insurance cover. Touting was made a criminal offence in the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994.

Section 167 of that Act is the relevant section and reads;

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994

Section 167

Taxi touts

Touting for hire car services

(1) Subject to the following provisions, it is an offence, in a public place, to solicit persons to hire vehicles to carry them as passengers.
(2) Subsection (1) above does not imply that the soliciting must refer to any particular vehicle nor is the mere display of a sign on a vehicle that the vehicle is for hire soliciting within that subsection.
(3) No offence is committed under this section where soliciting persons to hire licensed taxis is permitted by a scheme under section 10 of the [1985 c. 67.] Transport Act 1985 (schemes for shared taxis) whether or not supplemented by provision made under section 13 of that Act (modifications of the taxi code).
(4) It is a defence for the accused to show that he was soliciting for passengers for public service vehicles on behalf of the holder of a PSV operator’s licence for those vehicles whose authority he had at the time of the alleged offence.
(5) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.
(6) In this section—
• “public place” includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access (whether on payment or otherwise); and
• “public service vehicle” and “PSV operator’s license” have the same meaning as in Part II of the [1981 c. 14.] Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981.
(7) In section 24(2) of the [1984 c. 60.] Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (arrestable offences), after the paragraph (i) inserted by section 155 of this Act there shall be inserted the following paragraph—
“(j) an offence under section 167 of the [1994 c. 33.] Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 (touting for hire car services).”

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.

Not sure if relevant but I did look in a couple of dictionaries for the definitions of "tout" "Touting" and "Ply". Tout and touting appear quite clear but ply, seems to cover "travel" as in plying the seven seas and as in ply a trade. The 1847 Act could mean both?

So, a hackney is dropping off passengers at the kerbside within the LA that licenses it. As the passengers are paying their fare, another punter walks up and asks "are you free now to take me too ****". Is the driver then oblidged to decline the job and tell the punter to go to the nearest rank or to call a taxi firm for a car to be sent? If it is in order for to him to accept the job then surely it is no different to the driver being parked on a street with his light on?

I was reading the 1847 Act and was intrigued by the "5 miles from the general post office" clause.

Just another thought now. I drive PH and am absolutely vigilant to stick to the rules. How does this then work.

Am I right in assuming that the interior of the PH is a Public Place, after all, smoking in it is not permitted? I get jobs from restaurants and hotels taking people who do not live locally or know the firm I drive for. It is my custom when dropping such a person at their destination to hand them a company card, thank them for their business and say please use us again. Am I "touting"?

Not sure about the public place, but the reason smoking is prohibited is because it is a place of work (yours)

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

If you want to put a finer point to it whilst im driving around with my for hire sign lit im not technicaly "plying for hire".So i dont have to stop for a flag down but i can if i want.Oh the joys of taxi driving

The short answer is that he is guilty of plying for hire, or standing for hire, as the case may be, with a Hackney Carriage, which is not a licensed Hackney Carriage for the district that it has picked up in.

And if you re-read The TPC 1847, there is a difference between a Hackney Carriage and a licensed Hackney Carriage.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.

We know the driver is guilty of an offence... but now what is the penalty.....

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

so if the council does not have a bylaw in place... what then

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!