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UK cab trade debate and advice
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:02 pm 
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I don't want to shatter any illusions or misconceptions here, but things are not likely to change.

UKIP have about as much chance of being elected as the Monster Raving Looney's.

Considering the supposed power of the unions over the labour party, and the length of time they were in power, we are arguably in a worse situation now......the best practice bible and OFT (didn't unite KO them?) both state delimitation is the way.

Now we have the law commission.......the news gets even worse, because the ethos they're working to is one set by market forces or the capitalist system.......I think the phrase used to the NTA was 'If you can't stand the heat get another occupation'.......although the minutes of the meeting will be out this week to confirm that.

Unfortunately the cab trade is sh*fting itself......or being sh*fted by some of the people there to represent you.......yes, you will be trained and you will be trained (refresher courses) every so many years.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:51 pm 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
That’s exactly right [you two] and follows the well-recognised and accepted economic model of supply and demand.

Haven't we all been spending the last 6 months moaning about the cost of insurance?

If we followed the flawed logic of the chap in the article our insurance quotes should be getting cheaper as there are fewer insurance companies bidding for our business.

But in the real world that ain't happening.

However I look forward to you pointing out examples were fewer in the market lead to cheaper prices.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:04 am 
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edders23 wrote:
gusmac wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
That’s exactly right [you two] and follows the well-recognised and accepted economic model of supply and demand.



Has anywhere actually lowered fares upon limiting?



Our council [url]deregulated[/url] 15 years ago the effect has NOT been to lower fares but to swell the coffers of the council all firms are afraid to go out on a limb and set their fares to anything other than the council "default" rate but here we have mainly saloon car hackneys in Spalding they have a Wav policy so I cannot see a 500% expansion of the fleet as we have here although Spalding is also in the sights of the Peterborough Asian community who already have taken over at least one firm so I can see the worries they are all well aware of what has happened in Stamford


I'll ask again. Has anywhere lowered their fares after imposing a limit?



Thought not. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:27 am 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
This is well demonstrated in Oxford, where the HC running mile is one of the lowest in the country. Drivers work regular, normal shift hours, earn a good living wage, punters are happy with the price they pay for the service, so continue to use the service and there is no need to increase fares to the HC mileage rates commonly charged in most parts of the country.


So how much is an exclusive rental in Oxford compared to Brum, and how does this help drivers?

How does paying £100,000 for an Oxford plate help drivers?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:30 am 
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Sussex wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
That’s exactly right [you two] and follows the well-recognised and accepted economic model of supply and demand.

Haven't we all been spending the last 6 months moaning about the cost of insurance?

If we followed the flawed logic of the chap in the article our insurance quotes should be getting cheaper as there are fewer insurance companies bidding for our business.

But in the real world that ain't happening.

However I look forward to you pointing out examples were fewer in the market lead to cheaper prices.

The level of insurance premiums is governed by the cost of claims and you well know the scams that continue in the motoring insurance industry pushing up insurance premiums.

It has nothing to do with fewer insurance companies in the trade, but the increasing cost of claims, which in turn creates higher Hire and Reward premiums, may well have something to do with the massively exessive hours that more and more drivers are having to work to earn a trace of a living wage.

And overly tired drivers all trying to earn a trace of a living wage, creates dangerous driver, all because of the flawed concept of derestriction.

As for fewer in the market leading to cheaper fares; I have already pointed out the Oxford running mile example.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:43 am 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
This is well demonstrated in Oxford, where the HC running mile is one of the lowest in the country. Drivers work regular, normal shift hours, earn a good living wage, punters are happy with the price they pay for the service, so continue to use the service and there is no need to increase fares to the HC mileage rates commonly charged in most parts of the country.

So how much is an exclusive rental in Oxford compared to Brum, and how does this help drivers?

How does paying £100,000 for an Oxford plate help drivers?

I don't know what the cab rental price in Oxford is but let's say it's £10,000 a day!!

If drivers are paying that price and taking £20,000 a day clear, then it is worth their while.

If they are taking £9,000 a day clear and still have to put an extra £1,000 a day towards their daily cab rent, then it's not worth their while.

Market forces? You bet!!

As for the price of a plate in Oxford; that only shows that there is an economically viable business in the cab trade in that city.

Of course, if you were the owner of an Oxford plate or two, your philosophy would be totally opposite to the one you are spouting!!

Alas, jealousy, envy and covetousness are all traits of the cab driver and you show them in abundance.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:54 am 
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wee eddie wrote:
This is a classic case of "Market Forces" at work.

Whenever a Market is opened up, there will be a period of adjustment, during which too many Suppliers (In this case Taxis) come into the Market.

After a while, the number of Traders will stabilise of their own accord. Unfortunately some of those, who have entered the Market in that initial period, will need to leave it.

While I agree with your scribes, the probelm with the HC and PH trades with that theory is that most other businesses [cafes, restaurants, shoe shops, clothes shops etc] are also constrained by, for instance, available units on the high street, planning permission being withheld because of an oversupply of a given type of business in a particular location, to name just two variables.

In the case of PH and HC that is not the case because the roads are our working environment or 'shop' and would only be at saturation point if all the space on all the roads in the whole country were to be populated by HC and PH to total gridlock point.

So the model of market forces will never work in the cab trade because there is no such thing as a physical restriction on the space for our trades.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:47 pm 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
Alas, jealousy, envy and covetousness are all traits of the cab driver and you show them in abundance.


:lol:

Well I wouldn't put cab drivers like yourself down like that, but if I do enjoy these attributes then you certainly trump me in that regard :lol:

It's you who want preferential treatment, not me :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:13 pm 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
I don't know what the cab rental price in Oxford is but let's say it's £10,000 a day!!

If drivers are paying that price and taking £20,000 a day clear, then it is worth their while.

If they are taking £9,000 a day clear and still have to put an extra £1,000 a day towards their daily cab rent, then it's not worth their while.

Market forces? You bet!!

As for the price of a plate in Oxford; that only shows that there is an economically viable business in the cab trade in that city.



Bullocks, rudimentary economics dictates that the advantage accrues only to the plateholder, unless someone buys the plate and the cartel tightens thereafter.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:16 pm 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
In the case of PH and HC that is not the case because the roads are our working environment or 'shop' and would only be at saturation point if all the space on all the roads in the whole country were to be populated by HC and PH to total gridlock point.

So the model of market forces will never work in the cab trade because there is no such thing as a physical restriction on the space for our trades.


Complete and utter contradiction there. :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:03 am 
Sorry Dusty, everything you said in this thread is wrong, everything Brum has said is the truth, you are sitting there with one of two agenda's

1 - You think if you can get a plate anytime you want you can go out on the road free of a radio circuit and the cost of it......wrong! so will everyone else reducing you to £10 pd earnings

2 - You simply want to cost others who you feel have something you don't a packet because they got there first, and once the mission is complete you will shrug em and walk away.


Like I've said before, if I was work to this method, I would kick your door in and empty your fridge while watching your tv with my feet up on the sofa and there will be nothing you can do to stop me, of course I'm not about to do that, but think about it if I took it to the extremes of what I think is my right this could happen, basics are there is no restriction in the cab game, if you want to be a cabby you apply for a PH badge, if you want to move up then you ante up and buy in in the same way Tesco buy's competitors out.

But bottom line if you want reform, then it should be in good quality vehicles with good quality drivers, and the way to achieve that is to install confidence in long term people that they will earn from investing, this leads to customers knowing the drivers and a bond develops, your way it's going to be like double glazing sales, train em mug em watch em leave replace em, this in a cab means a driver will make up fares and have no care of his passenger, want proof, there is a car in town that was written off and not declared as a damaged car, the owner self repaired it and it's now floating about again, it looks like a junker and all the owner cares about is money, your way will mean 9 out of 10 cabs will be the same, so lets hope any reform includes repaired cars must be repaired back to original, or like my town you will have doors that don't line up and bonnets with 2 inch gaps between the wings, you lot are going to trash the whole job before long, I hope you are happy once you have, and I bet you won't hold your hands up and say I got it wrong, people like you never do.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:07 am 
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Doom wrote:
1 - You think if you can get a plate anytime you want you can go out on the road free of a radio circuit and the cost of it......wrong! so will everyone else reducing you to £10 pd earnings


Eh? I've worked the streets in a derestricted area. Had a radio for a while, but told them to stick it up their backsides. Much better without one. :roll:

Quote:
2 - You simply want to cost others who you feel have something you don't a packet because they got there first, and once the mission is complete you will shrug em and walk away.


Eh? I've got a hackney plate in a restricted area. :roll:

Quote:
Like I've said before, if I was work to this method, I would kick your door in and empty your fridge while watching your tv with my feet up on the sofa and there will be nothing you can do to stop me, of course I'm not about to do that, but think about it if I took it to the extremes of what I think is my right this could happen, basics are there is no restriction in the cab game, if you want to be a cabby you apply for a PH badge, if you want to move up then you ante up and buy in in the same way Tesco buy's competitors out.


Bullocks. You're comparing illegality with what's legal. The cartel has never been a guarantee. :roll:

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But bottom line if you want reform, then it should be in good quality vehicles with good quality drivers, and the way to achieve that is to install confidence in long term people that they will earn from investing, this leads to customers knowing the drivers and a bond develops, your way it's going to be like double glazing sales, train em mug em watch em leave replace em, this in a cab means a driver will make up fares and have no care of his passenger, want proof, there is a car in town that was written off and not declared as a damaged car, the owner self repaired it and it's now floating about again, it looks like a junker and all the owner cares about is money, your way will mean 9 out of 10 cabs will be the same, so lets hope any reform includes repaired cars must be repaired back to original, or like my town you will have doors that don't line up and bonnets with 2 inch gaps between the wings, you lot are going to trash the whole job before long, I hope you are happy once you have, and I bet you won't hold your hands up and say I got it wrong, people like you never do


But all that can happen in a restricted market, and needn't happen in an unrestricted one. :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:51 am 
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Doom wrote:
there is a car in town that was written off and not declared as a damaged car, the owner self repaired it and it's now floating about again.


It wasn't written off then was it?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:16 am 
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Doom wrote:
1 - You think if you can get a plate anytime you want you can go out on the road free of a radio circuit and the cost of it......wrong! so will everyone else reducing you to £10 pd earnings

But who is better to decide what best for oneself? You or the drivers themselves?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:11 am 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
In the case of PH and HC that is not the case because the roads are our working environment or 'shop' and would only be at saturation point if all the space on all the roads in the whole country were to be populated by HC and PH to total gridlock point.

So the model of market forces will never work in the cab trade because there is no such thing as a physical restriction on the space for our trades.

Complete and utter contradiction there. :roll:

I like the way you pick portions of a post and comment on them out of context!!

:badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin:

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