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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:06 pm 
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Dundee taxi drivers up front about the need to tackle ‘runners’




Bold new plans could see taxi passengers in Dundee paying for their journey before a wheel is turned.

In what is thought to be a first in Scotland, taxi drivers in the city will discuss the possibility of introducing up-front fees at a meeting early next year.

Operators claim that their hand has been forced following an increase in the number of so-called ”runners” — customers who flee without paying once arriving at their destination.

In a bid to protect their income, asking customers to pay at least a deposit upon entering a Dundee taxi now appears to be a real possibility.

Chris Elder, Unite union taxi branch secretary, told The Courier: ”It’s something that we’re looking at as there are so many drivers getting runners at the end of their journeys at the moment.

”It’s not everyone — there are a lot of good people in Dundee — but there are a certain few who don’t want to pay.

”A lot of the drivers have noticed that it has escalated a little recently. Only a few people have brought this to a head but this has been going on for years.”

Mr Elder insists taxi drivers are perfectly entitled to demand fares in advance. However, a discussion to be held at a liaison meeting in the near future would seek to make the new system a standard operating procedure.

Mr Elder believes customers would be understanding and says similar methods are already employed by operators south of the border.

”When you get on a bus you have to pay or you don’t get on,” he continued. ”When we do out of town work we will get a fee up front which is agreed upon beforehand so I can’t see this being a problem.

”We’ve already had some feedback from customers and that has been positive. I’ve read about it happening in England where customers even pay a deposit.”

Mr Elder also believes the police would support such a change, since it might cut the amount of time they have to spend investigating runners.

Councillor Rod Wallace, licensing convener, appeared to welcome the proposals when he spoke to The Courier.

He sees no reason why passengers would object to paying up front.

”There has been a request from members of the taxi liaison group to discuss this,” Mr Wallace confirmed.

”I fully appreciate the circumstances that some drivers can get into. If a large group get into a taxi and have maybe had a bit to drink then there is not always a guarantee that they will cough up at the end of the journey, leaving the driver in the lurch.

”I think that this system could work and I’m sure that taxi drivers would make their customers fully aware beforehand.”

Mr Wallace also confirmed that the matter is likely to come before the licensing committee in the new year should taxi operators choose to take the matter forward.

source: http://www.thecourier.co.uk/

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:23 pm 
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Does the Scottish act permit this?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:27 pm 
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21.— Offences.

(5) If any person demands fares or other charges in respect of the hire of a taxi or for the hire of a private hire car which is fitted with a taximeter in excess of the scales established under sections 17 and 18 of this Act, he shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:32 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
21.— Offences.

(5) If any person demands fares or other charges in respect of the hire of a taxi or for the hire of a private hire car which is fitted with a taximeter in excess of the scales established under sections 17 and 18 of this Act, he shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale
.

I think if the deposit is less than the driver estimates the final fare will be, then IMO legal.

As long as the meter is put on, and only the balance is paid at the end, then IMO legal.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:30 pm 
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yet another great idea eh ? not !
what a great piece of bad press for the city and, an arguement waiting to happen !
discrimination defined..and the fact the council have commented..just shows they know how to attract visitors.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:39 pm 
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http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/licensing/taxilicences/

6. The driver of a taxi not being used as a taxi-bus shall, if the cost of the journey is not regulated by a licensing authority fare structure, inform the hirer(s) or passenger(s) before the journey commences (a) that the fare is not so regulated; and (b) the cost, or the method of calculating the cost, of the proposed journey.

7. The driver of a taxi shall ensure that the taximeter fitted in the taxi in his charge shall be operated at all times in accordance with the detailed requirements imposed by the Licensing Authority.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:57 pm 
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Problem is that the law doesn't really deal with deposits rather than what's actually charged at the end of the journey, so I'm not really sure if it would be illegitimate for a driver to ask a deposit of a tenner for a journey that was likely to be about £7 (say).

I mean, as long as the £3 is returned once the fair is worked out then there's been no charge levied in excess of the metered fare as prescribed by the legislation.

Of course, one problem with this kind of thing might be that some drivers will ask for a deposit in excess of the actual fare and will then try to retain the whole lot, and you only have to read some of the articles on here to know the kind of problems that that can lead to.

By the same token, if a deposit of less than the fare is handed over then it's quite easy to envisage a lot of people refusing to pay any more at the end even if it meters at more than the deposit.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
Problem is that the law doesn't really deal with deposits rather than what's actually charged at the end of the journey, so I'm not really sure if it would be illegitimate for a driver to ask a deposit of a tenner for a journey that was likely to be about £7 (say).

I mean, as long as the £3 is returned once the fair is worked out then there's been no charge levied in excess of the metered fare as prescribed by the legislation.

Of course, one problem with this kind of thing might be that some drivers will ask for a deposit in excess of the actual fare and will then try to retain the whole lot, and you only have to read some of the articles on here to know the kind of problems that that can lead to.

By the same token, if a deposit of less than the fare is handed over then it's quite easy to envisage a lot of people refusing to pay any more at the end even if it meters at more than the deposit.


But I can't see anything allowing a Scottish driver to request a deposit.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:00 pm 
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Do you see anything that forbids it?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:06 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
But I can't see anything allowing a Scottish driver to request a deposit.


But as gusmac says there's nothing to forbid it, and as I said the legislation deals with the fare charged at the end. A deposit is just that, it's not the fare charged.

In essence it's a grey area because it's not covered by the legislation.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:08 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Do you see anything that forbids it?


The condition which states?

the driver of a taxi shall not refuse to drive a passenger to any place within the area of the Licensing Authority

the reasons for refusal are listed as;

The driver of a taxi need not convey any hirer or passenger who is drunk or otherwise not in a fit and proper state to be carried, or whose condition or clothing is offensive or likely to cause damage to the interior of the taxi, or who refused to cease smoking in the taxi when requested to do so by the driver, or is accompanied by any animal (other than a guide or hearing dog referred to in (b) below) which is likely to damage or soil the interior of the taxi, or for any other reasonable excuse.
(there's a little more but nothing about potential non payment)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:12 pm 
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That's a bit thin CC.

Quote:
for any other reasonable excuse
could be refusing to front up a deposit.
After all, their licensing committee will be the one's deciding what is or isn't reasonable. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:26 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
That's a bit thin CC.

Quote:
for any other reasonable excuse
could be refusing to front up a deposit.
After all, their licensing committee will be the one's deciding what is or isn't reasonable. :wink:


Yeah, I agree.

A deposit is something that drivers ask for anyway, I wonder why it appears to be hitting the headlines when its more or less a custom and practice?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:41 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
gusmac wrote:
That's a bit thin CC.

Quote:
for any other reasonable excuse
could be refusing to front up a deposit.
After all, their licensing committee will be the one's deciding what is or isn't reasonable. :wink:


Yeah, I agree.

A deposit is something that drivers ask for anyway, I wonder why it appears to be hitting the headlines when its more or less a custom and practice?

CC

Don't think it is common practice on local hires at the moment. That's why it's in the news.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:53 pm 
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If asking for money up front on a job within our area, I usually say to the punter that the fare will be on the meter but I think the total for the job will be say £20. If it comes to anything less I will give you the change. If it comes to anything more, you have got yourself a bargain. I have never had a problem with this. It has sometimes cost me a couple of quid if I have got it wrong but I look at the fact that I don't get arguments about the fare at the end.

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