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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:47 am 
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Sussex wrote:
I think he actually believes that.

Someone please name an area, any area, where there are more PH WAVs than taxi WAVs.


I've been to too many taxi meetings to hear people just make things up and keep talking for the sake of it......this meeting seemed little different.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:00 pm 
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Gobby wrote:
Wonder we did not have the grand pearler from our great leaders of wisdom "What is the difference between HC & PH?" :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin:


Maybe they had to answer that one correctly before they were allowed in the room :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:07 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Someone please name an area, any area, where there are more PH WAVs than taxi WAVs.


I suppose in a saloon taxi area it's conceviable, particularly if it's tightly restricted and thus the saloons have never really had to compete too much to make their money.

But even then I suspect that WAV PH provision is more about the number of seats and the WAV provision is secondary to that.

After all, if left to the market there would be very little in the way of provision for the disabled, despite the likes of the rot from saloon car taxi drivers who say that they're doing the more mobile disabled a favour by providing easy access saloons.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:33 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Someone please name an area, any area, where there are more PH WAVs than taxi WAVs.


I suppose in a saloon taxi area it's conceviable, particularly if it's tightly restricted and thus the saloons have never really had to compete too much to make their money.

But even then I suspect that WAV PH provision is more about the number of seats and the WAV provision is secondary to that.

After all, if left to the market there would be very little in the way of provision for the disabled, despite the likes of the rot from saloon car taxi drivers who say that they're doing the more mobile disabled a favour by providing easy access saloons.


How does an area become "tightly restricted"? It's either restricted or it isn't, but, that aside if you are working an area that is derestricted with 100% WAV taxi fleet I don't feel there is much call for the PH fleet to have many WAVs. Surely if market forces should be allowed to dictate the level of vehicles then market forces should also be allowed to dictate the type of vehicles, be them WAVs, small saloons, larger saloons, estates, 5/6/7/8 seater vehicles. Supply and demand is the cry of the free market. It seems to me that a 'free market' isn't all that 'free' when it has somebody trying to dictate the level of vehicle types. Also why are saloon car taxis considered 'rot' :?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:39 pm 
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toots wrote:

It seems to me that a 'free market' isn't all that 'free' when it has somebody trying to dictate the level of vehicle types. Also why are saloon car taxis considered 'rot' :?


=D>

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:51 pm 
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1.9 SW added that he felt a one-tier system would lead to a “honeypot” situation. Drivers would not be willing to pay operators’ fees and, given that there was very little hailing in suburban areas, all vehicles would work in city centres, reducing provision elsewhere.


What PH Operators fail to realise is that their customers are not just the people that ring for a vehicle, but, are indeed the actual drivers that provide the service to the person ringing up. If I provide a bad service my customers are unlikely to want to pay good money for it and are unlikely to use me again, should that standard not also apply to the PH Operator. If drivers are unwilling to pay them money there is a good chance they haven't earned enough to do so. IMO if operators want fees paying then they need to provide a better service to the drivers they want the said fees from. The only "moneypots" here are the ones the PH Operator is trying to create by becoming the only provider within an area and by flooding the market with drivers working excessive hours to fill the said "moneypot"

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:55 pm 
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toots wrote:
if you are working an area that is derestricted with 100% WAV taxi fleet I don't feel there is much call for the PH fleet to have many WAVs.
The vast majority of Wheelchair users phone for a lift, yet this is where they are least likely to find an accessible vehicle.

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Surely if market forces should be allowed to dictate the level of vehicles then market forces should also be allowed to dictate the type of vehicles, be them WAVs, small saloons, larger saloons, estates, 5/6/7/8 seater vehicles. Supply and demand is the cry of the free market. It seems to me that a 'free market' isn't all that 'free' when it has somebody trying to dictate the level of vehicle types.


Left to the free market, there would be little provision anywhere for wheelchair users, not just the taxi/PH trade.
Shops would still have signs which said NO BUGGIES OR WHEELCHAIRS and hotels would still have signs which said NO BLACKS, NO DOGS, NO IRISH

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:07 pm 
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toots wrote:
Also why are saloon car taxis considered 'rot' :?


The cars aren't considered rot.
The argument that they are needed to provide a service to the slightly disabled is. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Gusmac wrote:
toots wrote:
if you are working an area that is derestricted with 100% WAV taxi fleet I don't feel there is much call for the PH fleet to have many WAVs.
The vast majority of Wheelchair users phone for a lift, yet this is where they are least likely to find an accessible vehicle.


You're right, they do indeed ring for a vehicle. The other bit I'm less inclined to agree with because I know the PH here have a large array of vehicles available. I guess I'm being silly now because it all depends what area you are in and what demand there is for said service and who knows better than those that fulfil that demand. As I said I don't feel there is much call for the PH fleet to have many WAVs, especially when I consider the fact that there are some 235 of them readily available on a rank, at the end of mobile phone and indeed on a circuit as well. Also considering that nobody has actually everr done any surveys to assess said demand

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:18 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
toots wrote:
Also why are saloon car taxis considered 'rot' :?


The cars aren't considered rot.
The argument that they are needed to provide a service to the slightly disabled is. :wink:


Why?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:21 pm 
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1.8 Bryan Roland (BR) noted that 95% of drivers were self-employed. Private hire operators were concerned that a one-tier system would not give them sufficient control over drivers to allow them to cope with demand. The labour market was a different shape in each area and it was not possible to say to what extent driving work represented the main source of income.


If an operator is not prepared to employ a driver then they certainly don't deserve any control over the driver. What difference does it make whether driving does or does not represent the main source of income?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:28 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
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1.22 RP explained that the Law Commission was considering proposing a two-tier system with national standards for PHVs but a more local approach for taxi licensing. The main concerns here were the impact of technology on the distinction between the two and the extent to which the two trades were closely linked, for example in relation to training. He further noted that it may be possible in such a system for local authorities to create a de facto one-tier system by applying the national PHV standards to taxis.

Some please remind me WTF the Law Commission are on about here? :?

Exactly what has technology got to do with the number of tiers? :?


I'm guessing they're talking about internet bookings or mobile phones and the effect it may have on the industry. Currently in our area, I'm not sure if it is a national requirement, we have to have a landline number if we are to be an opertor. Technology does away with that requirement and this has to be considered. Also with regard to training they may well consider that PH or indeed taxis don't need area knowledge because of satnavs, personally I think that would be a disaster, but, do they?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:10 pm 
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1.69 JB felt that some authorities saw licensing as a cash cow and sought to profit from conditions. It would be difficult to create an entirely level playing field in terms of fees charged.

Replace the word 'some' with the word 'all'.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:12 pm 
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1.76 BR raised the issue of transport hubs served only by PHVs, leaving no taxi provision. He questioned whether there should be a requirement for contractors such as railway stations and airports to ensure that their disability duties were met by ensuring provision of WAVs.

Would someone please advise the boss of bosses of the 2010 Equalities Act. :roll: :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:15 pm 
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1.80 SW expressed the view that a quota system would be unworkable. The majority of drivers were self-employed and operators could not stipulate which vehicles drivers should use. Problems would arise if any of the fleet’s accessible vehicles broke down. He believed that the provision of WAVs within the PHV market was sufficient, with many specialist companies on the market. Where a journey is pre-booked the operator can provide an appropriate vehicle.

London spiv gets it wrong again, or tries to mislead again.

How many Addison Lee cars are owned by the drivers? The answer is none. [-X

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