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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:31 pm 
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This opposition was expressed in even stronger terms in a recent edition of the T&G’s Cab Trade News, in a piece opposing taxi de-restriction:

The OFT report is dangerous fantasy stuff because it totally ignores one enormous factor which affects the honest taxi driver. Namely, the widespread use of private hire car operations, for laundering cash from drugs and other criminal activities.
[…]
The private hire cars do not have to make real profits they just have to appear to. The real cash is made peddling drugs and the firm appears to be operating legally because it is fronted.
[…]
At the moment, the crooks haven’t crossed into the taxi trade in big numbers. The OFT plans will open the floodgates to them.


Again, I dont agree with this stuff, it is reprehensible, offensive and symtomatic of poor tabloid style journalism.

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:34 pm 
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The issue of criminality in the trade is considered later, but the comments above are perhaps symptomatic of the general attitude of many in the taxi sector to the private hire trade, which is partly born of the resentment engendered by competition from that sector. Indeed, this often leads to calls for a single-tier cab sector (ie no private hire), which is T&G policy, but this perhaps makes the union’s current concern for the private hire sector and its customers look somewhat opportunistic.


Im not disagreeing with the statement, however perhaps the resentment is more to do with illegal plying for hire by PHV's.

As for T&G policy it is consistent......consistently wrong, with no grasp on the needs and demands of the public.

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:36 pm 
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A variation on this theme are calls for the number of PHVs to be limited, à la taxis. For example, a few weeks before the launch of the OFT’s year-long trade study, focused primarily on taxi quantity controls, the Scottish Executive published a consultation document on the licensing legislation, which ignored things like the inequities and economic distortion of restricting taxi numbers, the illegally operating taxis in Dundee and elsewhere, and the fact that many local authorities seemed to have driven a coach and horses through the ‘no transfer’ ethos of the legislation, but instead proposed that numerical controls be extended to private hire, because the taxi trade and others wanted it. Moreover, the proposal received no more than a passing mention in the document, and no detail was provided nor views sought. Indeed, the proposal was effectively presented as a fait accompli.


Limiting PH is a pathetic exersize, simply not thought through. I fully agree with the document on this point.

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:40 pm 
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If students of economics are looking for a textbook case of ‘regulatory capture’, then perhaps they should consider examining the Scottish taxi trade!

But once again it should be noted that the taxi trade’s opposition to private hire can be somewhat ambivalent. For example, in places like Brighton and Dundee the taxi trade’s mainstream despatch offices see taxis working alongside PHVs. Again this is born of self-interest – the taxi plate cartel is maintained, while PHVs pay fees to despatch offices run by many of the selfsame people. Indeed, there are numerous individuals in the UK who benefit from quantity controls on taxis but at the same time operate PHVs.

The interaction between the two sides of the trade is considered more fully later in relation to the ‘unmet demand’ test.


I disagree with some aspects here.

PHV's will pay dispatch fee's where-ever they go, and you know this ya laal tinker :wink:

With regards to people owning HC's and PHV's, I do, so whats the problem you have with me? These others are the same, they're trying to run a business and provide a service.

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:48 pm 
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The democratic deficit


Dictionary out.....you really should consider SCATA membership :wink:

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One important aspect of restricted numbers is that they are fundamentally undemocratic. Journeymen drivers are effectively casually employed (dressed up as ‘self-employment’ in the technical sense) and such a relationship is clearly not conducive to democracy and free speech. In restricted areas journeymen drivers obviously depend on plate holders to be able to work, since they clearly cannot run their own vehicle, and many either cannot or will not fund the purchase of a plate. Private hire owners and drivers who might move to the taxi sector with de-restriction also often depend on those with a vested interest in the status quo, such as private hire despatch offices who fear the greater independence and bargaining power that freedom to enter the taxi sector might give to drivers.


How is restricted numbers undemocratic, and why does it have to be democratic?

Going to your chemists and garages scenario, I want to by a chemist (I have a garage :wink: ) I cant afford one, now who's blighting my democracy?

Concerning the self employment, why does the document want to go there? Although Im sure the Inland Revenue would love to know too, self employment is a standard practice throughout the industry both HC and PH.

So its the HC trades fault that people havent got the gumption to start up their own booking offices, or is this more undemocratic stuff? :wink:

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:53 pm 
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Thus restricting taxi numbers is arguably institutionally undemocratic. However, there is also an intimidation/bully-boy factor in the industry which can raise its head in relation to a wide range of issues. One example which made the press was telephoned death threats to the proprietor of a Fylde taxi firm which was offering fares at below the local authority tariff.

Thus those in the trade opposing the vested interests tend not to put their head above the parapet.


Okay, so I still dont see the undemocratic bit, but carry on :wink:

Ahh, so were believeing the press now? :shock: And with one example the document comes to that conclusion? :shock:

Which firm was it? I could enlighten you, although I didnt make the phone call :D

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:56 pm 
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4 THE ‘UNMET DEMAND’ TEST


Been looking forward to this bit :wink:

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A local authority does not have an unfettered discretion to restrict the number of taxis in its area. It can only control numbers to the extent that there is no significant unmet demand for taxi services. While the application of this legislative test is surrounded by arcane case law and complex statistical techniques, in simple terms it means that if there are long queues and waiting times for customers at taxi ranks then the number of taxis must be increased. Thus if demand for taxis grows over time then it might be expected that ‘unmet demand’ will manifest itself and more taxi licenses will be granted to service the extra customers.


Okay

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:00 pm 
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Flaws in the unmet demand test

One major flaw in the test arises from the simplistic view of taxi markets that regards the bare number of taxis as the most appropriate measure of supply. However, as was outlined earlier, two identical numbers of taxis could easily manifest fundamentally different measures of supply insofar as the number of drivers (or more accurately, driver hours worked) is a more accurate measure. Thus limiting the number of taxis can clearly lead to supply increasing without issuing more licenses if each vehicle becomes better utilised. For example, if taxi numbers in London were controlled at the current 20,500 then driver numbers could increase to over 40,000 from the current 24,500 without requiring an increase in taxi numbers – at around two drivers per vehicle this would be by no means a high ratio as compared to other UK locations. Clearly, increasing London driver numbers to 40,000 under the current regime would take many years, even assuming a reasonable growth in demand.


Isnt this what the HC trade have been saying? Better management of vehicles.

Are you suggesting limits are good in this bit? :wink:

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:04 pm 
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Thus although the unmet demand test seems to envisage the number of plates in issue increasing to meet rising demand, it is clear from this example that increasing the number of drivers performs the same task without having to issue more vehicle licenses. The salient point is that this system works to the advantage of the incumbent plate holders when controls are introduced, but to the detriment of later entrants to the trade, who either pay excessive rentals to those controlling the ‘tools of the trade’ or buy the right to operate a taxi at an entirely artificial value. Surely this was not the intention of the legislation.


Are you saying that unmet demand tests are a good thing or a bad thing then?

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:07 pm 
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By the same token, if a taxi journeyman is granted an additional plate, this does not really increase supply, assuming that he continues to work a similar number of hours – clearly this was not envisaged by the legislation. The implication underpinning the legislation seems to be that granting a new taxi plate will increase supply, but if it is granted to a currently working driver then it will not increase supply, so is it the case that the restrictions were never intended to apply to currently working drivers? Of course, the test does seem to assume that granting a taxi plate to current drivers will increase supply but clearly this line of thought lacks logic.


I dont understand this, you say if extra plates are granted it doesnt increase supply?

A couple of points.......

1) How isnt supply increased with extra taxis?

2) If supply isnt increased whats the point in delimitation?

A confused paragraph, well it confused me anyway.....was this a deliberate ploy? hehe :wink:

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:09 pm 
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However, if the new license is granted to a PH driver then this will increase taxi supply, but the extent of this will depend on whether he continues to service the pre-booked market, in which case he might well only take a small proportion of his total work from the street market with his new taxi license.


Ahh I see, so we can increase taxi numbers, just so long as a plate is granted to a new entrant to the trade then? hmmmm and you were telling us all about democracy a few minutes ago :wink:

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:18 pm 
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One point worth mentioning is that in some areas only working taxi drivers are eligible for new taxi licenses, so even the possibility of a shift from private hire can be dismissed.

In this regard it is interesting that the T&G and others have chosen to highlight the fact that restricting taxi plate numbers compels a greater utilisation of the vehicle, which they make a virtue of insofar as it is claimed that it increases unsocial hours coverage. However, it is clear that the legislation does not take account of double-shifting either – two one-driver cars are the same in supply terms as one two-driver car, but the legislation assumes that the former is twice the latter. Thus the T&G seems to be implying that the legislation is flawed.


Again I dont really understand the second point, perhaps you could enlighten me.
:wink:

Are you suggesting that a single shifted vehicle does the same hours as a double shifted vehicle?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:23 pm 
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Flaws in the independent surveys


Hehe, I thought they'd be wrong. :wink:

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To assess whether unmet demand for taxi services is evident, case law indicates that a survey should be undertaken by an independent body. In general terms, these surveys undertake observations at taxi ranks and use the data to ascertain how many additional taxis are required to meet any unmet demand that is manifested.


Correct. :wink:

Quote:
One major flaw, identified by the OFT, is that the surveys take no account of demand in the hail market – clearly a significant source of taxi work. Another major flaw is that the surveys fail to take sufficient account of ‘latent’ demand; that is demand that is not satisfied due to the lack of taxis available. To illustrate this, it is clear that large parts of London are not served by taxis, but this is obviously due to qualitative barriers to entering the trade rather than quantity controls on taxis. However, assuming that this lack of service was due to quantity controls then if an unmet demand survey was undertaken this would clearly not include areas currently not serviced by taxis – thus if there is no supply then there will be no demand, and thus no unmet demand evidenced.


I'm not sure how significant hailing it actually is, with the exception of London.

But then, London does not have surveys, so why is there a persistence in looking at London?

an irellevent point really :wink: (dont say mine or yours)

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captain cab
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:26 pm 
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In the provinces it is clear that in cities like Manchester taxis are able to cherry-pick which areas to serve (primarily city centres) thus in suburban areas customers will secure a PHV in the pre-booked market and will not even consider getting a taxi, therefore the cherry-picking means that there is no unmet demand manifested in neglected areas.


Yes, however you do miss a point, even if Manchester or where-ever is completely delimited, there is no guarantee that vehicles will ply for hire in suburban areas.

Indeed, the simple fact is that with more taxis, more taxis will ply for hire in the town centres.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:29 pm 
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The London example also illustrates another flaw in the application of the test, namely the lack of consideration of any quality barriers that deter entry to the taxi sector. Thus in London it is clear that if entry to the taxi sector was unregulated or lightly regulated then the current PH/minicab sector would provide a taxi service in suburban areas. But the point again is that the quality barriers stifle supply of taxis thus again there is no demand in many areas and therefore no unmet demand.


Back to delimited London :wink:

So what its saying is that PH dont currently serve Londons suburbs?

So we cannot have standards of entry now? the public is going to love this. :wink:

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