Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Thu May 07, 2026 6:22 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 129 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 9  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:20 pm
Posts: 3272
So I take it this means that you all know restricted numbers isn't linked to quality or safety, but you're all trying your best to deflect from that particular argument? :D

Funny that the link is often made when it suits, but you all cry foul when there's evidence demonstrating that the link in fact doesn't exist, and no amount of nitpicking, deflection and general bluster can change that.

By the way Toots, I don't normally subscribe to the dumb-taxi-driving-brunette-who-can't-Google-and-hasn't-heard-of-the-OFT's-taxi/PHV-report routine, but since the season of goodwill is approaching I'll make an exception in this case :D

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/report ... oft676.pdf

Actually the point I was thinking about related to driver hours and the impact on safety, but presumably the statistics are equally valid regarding vehicle safety, because they refer to taxi accidents as a percentage of all road traffic accidents, thus the cause is not differentiated between driver/vehicle issues.

Anyway, the numbers indicate that there is no "statistically significant difference" between the number of taxi accidents in restricted and unrestricted areas, which is actually quite charitable of the OFT because the restricted areas seem to come out worse :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 14152
Location: Wirral
Dusty Bin wrote:
So I take it this means that you all know restricted numbers isn't linked to quality or safety, but you're all trying your best to deflect from that particular argument? :D

Funny that the link is often made when it suits, but you all cry foul when there's evidence demonstrating that the link in fact doesn't exist, and no amount of nitpicking, deflection and general bluster can change that.

By the way Toots, I don't normally subscribe to the dumb-taxi-driving-brunette-who-can't-Google-and-hasn't-heard-of-the-OFT's-taxi/PHV-report routine, but since the season of goodwill is approaching I'll make an exception in this case :D

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/report ... oft676.pdf

Actually the point I was thinking about related to driver hours and the impact on safety, but presumably the statistics are equally valid regarding vehicle safety, because they refer to taxi accidents as a percentage of all road traffic accidents, thus the cause is not differentiated between driver/vehicle issues.



Anyway, the numbers indicate that there is no "statistically significant difference" between the number of taxi accidents in restricted and unrestricted areas, which is actually quite charitable of the OFT because the restricted areas seem to come out worse :wink:


Thank you, the point I was trying to make was that there is no evidence statistically that supports either arguement. Whilst there may have been little or no difference between accidents in restricted or derestricted areas there is no data available regarding how many drivers take risks with vehicle maintenance. The small majority that are caught are just that, a small majority. I suggest that these drivers are the tip of the iceburg so to speak and 'there for the grace of God' not had any serious mishaps whilst carrying passengers. The fact that Oft have little or no regard to drivers ability to earn a living does not make them right. If like buses taxis where subsidised to ensure they could provide the service that everybody in authority wants them to I'd be all for a free for all.
Oft report wrote:
While we accept that potential rank overcrowding is an issue for LAs
without quantity controls, in our view it can be managed. For example
new ranks or temporary ranks to cover weekend and evening peaks may
be created. Marshals could also be used at peak times to help speed up
traffic flow.
How niave :roll:

Quote:
Another set of arguments is that limiting the supply of taxis encourages
use of public transport, and reduces congestion and air pollution.
4.73 Again we do not find these arguments supportable:
• our consumer research shows that if consumers are unable to get a
taxi, they will generally not switch to public transport, nor to
environmentally friendly and congestion reducing modes of transport,
but would tend instead to use their car
• congestion and pollution caused by motor vehicles is a huge problem
of which taxis are only a small part. These problems are already dealt
with directly through fuel taxation and through initiatives such as
congestion charging and pedestrianisation of city centres. Since taxis
are often used in conjunction with other public transport (for example
at the start and end of train journeys) or at times when other public
transport is not available, restricting taxis could even decrease other
public transport use.


So taxis are to provide the service that other public transport can't but unlike other public transport they won't be subsidised and in many cases will be charged to sit on a rank at a train station

For this priviledge they will have their market flooded and their income reduced and their working hours increased and their family time reduced. I'm sorry but I don't agree with this type of working practise. As I said before whilst I don't agree with restriction on vehicles until such time that the quality of drivers is increased to a level that only encourages professionals I see no reasonable alternative.

If a driver has no money to repair or maintain their vehicle at regular intervals they will take chances with their own safety and that of the public until they are either caught and stopped or they eventually have the money spare to repair and maintain.

To end my rant lets make it clear that accidents are accidents, neglect of vehicles is not the same and there are no statistics to support your arguement, or mine for that matter. Imo the Oft report isn't worth the paper it's written on in much the same way as the NVQ isn't worth the paper that is printed on either.

Btw I ain't dumb it's a means to an end and it worked :wink:

_________________
Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:37 pm
Posts: 2406
Thing is about dusty ,is your way of thinking for the taxi drivers or the public ? I can see why they would want a rank full of shiny new cabs waiting for them,but they have got to earn a living so how does more taxis help that cause ? Because anyone who drives a taxi for a living at the moment will know were only just scraping by ! So dusty are you just a all round good guy or are you just a numpty.Before you answer that last bit i allready know xx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:52 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57371
Location: 1066 Country
blackpool wrote:
so how does more taxis help that cause ?

What is the point of restricting taxis if you don't restrict drivers?

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:37 pm
Posts: 2406
Sorry sussex dont really get your question


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 14152
Location: Wirral
blackpool wrote:
Sorry sussex dont really get your question


He's pointing out that restricting vehicles is pointless if you allow all to apply for a taxi drivers licence and put very little restriction in place for the driver. The driver standards should be high then you wouldn't need to restrict the vehicles or at least that is how I read it

_________________
Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:10 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57371
Location: 1066 Country
blackpool wrote:
Sorry sussex dont really get your question

You make a reasonable point about drivers earning during the recession, and say a restriction on taxi numbers will help, or ending restrictions will make things worse.

But having the same number of cabs with more and more drivers being squeezed into them leads to a similar situation, in respect of drivers earnings.

Of course the stay at home taxi owners wont mind, but the majority of drivers will as those extra drivers will eat into their work load.

So the question is, what is the point in restricting taxi numbers if taxi drivers remain unlimited?

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 14152
Location: Wirral
Sussex wrote:
blackpool wrote:
Sorry sussex dont really get your question

You make a reasonable point about drivers earning during the recession, and say a restriction on taxi numbers will help, or ending restrictions will make things worse.

But having the same number of cabs with more and more drivers being squeezed into them leads to a similar situation, in respect of drivers earnings.

Of course the stay at home taxi owners wont mind, but the majority of drivers will as those extra drivers will eat into their work load.

So the question is, what is the point in restricting taxi numbers if taxi drivers remain unlimited?


So much better said and explained by your good self :wink:

_________________
Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:20 pm
Posts: 3272
toots wrote:
Thank you, the point I was trying to make was that there is no evidence statistically that supports either arguement. Whilst there may have been little or no difference between accidents in restricted or derestricted areas there is no data available regarding how many drivers take risks with vehicle maintenance. The small majority that are caught are just that, a small majority. I suggest that these drivers are the tip of the iceburg so to speak and 'there for the grace of God' not had any serious mishaps whilst carrying passengers. The fact that Oft have little or no regard to drivers ability to earn a living does not make them right. If like buses taxis where subsidised to ensure they could provide the service that everybody in authority wants them to I'd be all for a free for all.


Yes, but the point I was alluding to initially - which you're clearly about ten years behind on thus perhaps missed that point ever so slightly - was your cartel cronies' claim that restricted numbers mean higher standards, safer vehicles etc. The onus is on them to demonstrate that. You rightly say there's no definitive evidence to support the claim, thus you're undermining their claim rather than supporting it, but I don't think you realise that :wink:

And as usual the rest of your argument confuses plate holders with drivers, so no point in going over that for the zillionth time.

As for subsidies, that would just mean more drivers/vehicles in the trade, so back to square one.

Restricted numbers is an indirect subsidy, but you're making the argument that there's no evidence to suggest it increases standards =D>


Quote:
Oft report wrote:
While we accept that potential rank overcrowding is an issue for LAs
without quantity controls, in our view it can be managed. For example
new ranks or temporary ranks to cover weekend and evening peaks may
be created. Marshals could also be used at peak times to help speed up
traffic flow.
How niave
:roll: :roll:

Quote:
So taxis are to provide the service that other public transport can't but unlike other public transport they won't be subsidised and in many cases will be charged to sit on a rank at a train station


Next you'll be arguing for free taxis for customers :roll:

I think you'll find that subsidies are generally only used to provide a service which wouldn't otherwise be provided, which kind of conflicts with your argument about overflowing taxi ranks.

Quote:
For this priviledge they will have their market flooded and their income reduced and their working hours increased and their family time reduced. I'm sorry but I don't agree with this type of working practise. As I said before whilst I don't agree with restriction on vehicles until such time that the quality of drivers is increased to a level that only encourages professionals I see no reasonable alternative.


So how do inflated rentals and/or a loan of tens of thousands to buy a plate help matters along?

As for 'professionalising' the trade, unfortunately it's the PH circuits and taxi cartels who don't want this because it woud interfere with their supply of rental/settle fodder, so it's ironic that you prefer to pander to the taxi cartels and their policies which take money out of the pockets of drivers.

Quote:
If a driver has no money to repair or maintain their vehicle at regular intervals they will take chances with their own safety and that of the public until they are either caught and stopped or they eventually have the money spare to repair and maintain.

To end my rant lets make it clear that accidents are accidents, neglect of vehicles is not the same and there are no statistics to support your arguement, or mine for that matter. Imo the Oft report isn't worth the paper it's written on in much the same way as the NVQ isn't worth the paper that is printed on either.


Yes, it's all schecht, but what's the alternative? Blackpool's thesis? Mr T's? :lol:
Quote:
Btw I ain't dumb it's a means to an end and it worked :wink


I didn't say you were dumb, I said it was a 'routine'. Or that you can't be bothered doing a basic google search. Or both :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:20 pm
Posts: 3272
blackpool wrote:
Thing is about dusty ,is your way of thinking for the taxi drivers or the public ? I can see why they would want a rank full of shiny new cabs waiting for them,but they have got to earn a living so how does more taxis help that cause ? Because anyone who drives a taxi for a living at the moment will know were only just scraping by ! So dusty are you just a all round good guy or are you just a numpty.Before you answer that last bit i allready know xx


Yes, there's so little money around that to put a taxi on in Blackpool I'd have to shell out £30/40k for a plate and less than a tenth of that for a vehicle. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm
Posts: 37494
Location: Wayneistan
Dusty Bin wrote:
blackpool wrote:
Thing is about dusty ,is your way of thinking for the taxi drivers or the public ? I can see why they would want a rank full of shiny new cabs waiting for them,but they have got to earn a living so how does more taxis help that cause ? Because anyone who drives a taxi for a living at the moment will know were only just scraping by ! So dusty are you just a all round good guy or are you just a numpty.Before you answer that last bit i allready know xx


Yes, there's so little money around that to put a taxi on in Blackpool I'd have to shell out £30/40k for a plate and less than a tenth of that for a vehicle. :lol:



Yes and retaining the price.....which is something that doesnt happen when you take a brand new vehicle out of the showroom....for the same purpose.

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:20 pm
Posts: 3272
captain cab wrote:
Dusty Bin wrote:
blackpool wrote:
Thing is about dusty ,is your way of thinking for the taxi drivers or the public ? I can see why they would want a rank full of shiny new cabs waiting for them,but they have got to earn a living so how does more taxis help that cause ? Because anyone who drives a taxi for a living at the moment will know were only just scraping by ! So dusty are you just a all round good guy or are you just a numpty.Before you answer that last bit i allready know xx


Yes, there's so little money around that to put a taxi on in Blackpool I'd have to shell out £30/40k for a plate and less than a tenth of that for a vehicle. :lol:



Yes and retaining the price.....which is something that doesnt happen when you take a brand new vehicle out of the showroom....for the same purpose.

CC


My point was to demonstrate where the benefit of the restriction goes - the profiteering - while the pubile derive little or no benefit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 8529
Dusty's version of Ferness is to create a system of licensing, by which you can implement more and more red tape to provide conditions to keep drivers out.. just restrict them from attaining a licence.... drivers licence....

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm
Posts: 37494
Location: Wayneistan
Dusty Bin wrote:

My point was to demonstrate where the benefit of the restriction goes - the profiteering - while the pubile derive little or no benefit.



But according to annex c of the oft report the taxi service in a deregulated area is actually worse than a regulated one.....wheres the public benefit in that?

or did you forget the public?

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:02 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57371
Location: 1066 Country
If there was a choice over restricting drivers numbers and restricting taxi numbers, then I would happily go for restricting drivers.

Then they would have all the power.

One of these days the taxi unions might actually fight for the average driver, instead of the average spiv boss.

_________________
IDFIMH


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 129 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 997 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group