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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:23 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
It may play to Salmond's advantage to have a Tory government in situ at Westminster, but the EU situation can only be bad news in the run up to the referendum, especially if he continues looking so over-entushiastic about it.

Do you not think it's better for Scottish Labour to have Tory Gov down here, as they can say vote for us and boot them out? Not sure that applies to the SNP.

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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
gusmac wrote:
Well, now you know how I felt earlier on. :lol: Remind me, how many quotes are you allowed to embed?


On TDO? I don't think there's any limit on anything :roll:

On the new version of php there is, but admin can allow as many as they see fit.

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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:
which presumably means that the oil reserves will be left in the ground and instead of lining your [edited by admin] with oil revenues Scotland would be impoverished by paying huge subsidies to wind farms for renewable energy?

If the Scots did that then I think the solution would be an English version of the 'watch out there's a Humphries about' advert. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:52 pm 
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It’s been revealed that the Scottish Government spent £42,772 on a party for the pandas arrival from China;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ja ... come-party

Row over pandas' giant welcome party

Animal campaigners accuse Scottish government of spending £43,000 on bash for arrival of animals at Edinburgh zoo

CC

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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:57 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:15 am 
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captain cab wrote:
It’s been revealed that the Scottish Government spent £42,772 on a party for the pandas arrival from China;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ja ... come-party

Row over pandas' giant welcome party

Animal campaigners accuse Scottish government of spending £43,000 on bash for arrival of animals at Edinburgh zoo

CC


Well considering that there is more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs, the sum is a drop in the ocean to what the Tory led westmonster government have and continue to extract from the working man of Scotland .


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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:10 am 
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gusmac wrote:
This may be how it seems but Salmond wants independence, don't ever doubt that.
He supported devolution as a stepping stone to where he wanted to be, while the unionists hoped it would end the clamour for independence.
The piecemeal approach has suited him before and would do so again. Salmond realises that 300 years of conditioning isn't easy to overcome.
There will be a referendum, this much is sure. He'd be finished if he doesn't hold one.
As to the contents, it will be as much as he thinks he can sell to the Scottish electorate.
One giant leap or a hundred small steps, his destination is still the same.


Yes, I would certainly agree that he would take independence if it was on offer, but the problem is self-evidently that it isn't at present, thus the delay in the referendum.

However, to the extent that if even a couple of years down the line he knew that it was unwinnable then he might prefer not to have one?

After all, it might be preferable for his legacy to not hold a referendum rather than lose one.

Of course, it all depends on the circumstances.

For example, one theory I read about was that the SNP know full well that a legal challenge to the Scottish Government's power to hold a referendum is likely, and this would hold up things for months, possibly years, thus possibly till after the next Scottish Parliament elections.

But they're doing nothing to head this off because in effect the scenario would allow them to ditch the referendum and Salmond could shift the blame for this elsewhere, thus preserving his legacy without holding a referendum. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:12 am 
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Stationtone wrote:
[ no figures released by Michael Moore revealed we would be £19 billion better of being independent and when you take the money that was spent on illegal wars , trident and the channel tunnel i think it would be significantly more .


But that doesn't mean that Scotland wouldn't be in deficit.


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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:13 am 
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Sussex wrote:
Dusty Bin wrote:
gusmac wrote:
Well, now you know how I felt earlier on. :lol: Remind me, how many quotes are you allowed to embed?


On TDO? I don't think there's any limit on anything :roll:

On the new version of php there is, but admin can allow as many as they see fit.


Perhaps admin could set it to the minimum then :D


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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:14 am 
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Sussex wrote:
Dusty Bin wrote:
It may play to Salmond's advantage to have a Tory government in situ at Westminster, but the EU situation can only be bad news in the run up to the referendum, especially if he continues looking so over-entushiastic about it.

Do you not think it's better for Scottish Labour to have Tory Gov down here, as they can say vote for us and boot them out? Not sure that applies to the SNP.


Yes, I daresay it would be better for Scottish Labour, but only if the SNP didn't exist :D


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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:21 am 
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Jasbar wrote:
The first flaw in the European model is that the whole gig is not founded on any premise of democracy and accountability.

The second flaw is that democracy and accountability are simply an illusion in any case.

The drive for oexpansion is being steered by rthe average Joe. he's too busy being shafted by local control freaks to concern himself with foreign control freaks.

Rather it's being driven by megalomaniacs massaging their egos and ambitions by seeking to expand and control bigger populations, bigger territories.

Problem is, what is happening is little more than empire building. And history shows that empires always expand to the point that they are no longer manageable and controllable. Break up is inevitable. Europe's problem is that it has reached this point in 50 years when it took the ancient empires of the Assyrians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans et al thousands of years. That's some achievement. But then, there is a precedent. Hitler's thousand year Reich lasted little more than a decade.

BTW If you consider the Chinese empire any different, it's not. It will break up long before it can realise its threat to the rest of the planet that the West is currently concerned about. I have no doubt that economic and other measures are already being employed by Western powers to facillitate this. Just as the Soviet empire was cleaved apart, China is the next one. The English people wouldn't survive unless it is.


Yes, that must be why we gave them Hong Kong back :lol:

Joking aside, a thoughtful analysis, but I think China probably has a bit more history behind it than the USSR, so to that extent it may prove more durable.


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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:24 am 
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Dusty Bin wrote:

For example, one theory I read about was that the SNP know full well that a legal challenge to the Scottish Government's power to hold a referendum is likely, and this would hold up things for months, possibly years, thus possibly till after the next Scottish Parliament elections.

But they're doing nothing to head this off because in effect the scenario would allow them to ditch the referendum and Salmond could shift the blame for this elsewhere, thus preserving his legacy without holding a referendum. :D


That would be a good get out of jail free card, if he needed it.

Well I did say he was c u n n i ng ......... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:33 am 
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gusmac wrote:
Dusty Bin wrote:

For example, one theory I read about was that the SNP know full well that a legal challenge to the Scottish Government's power to hold a referendum is likely, and this would hold up things for months, possibly years, thus possibly till after the next Scottish Parliament elections.

But they're doing nothing to head this off because in effect the scenario would allow them to ditch the referendum and Salmond could shift the blame for this elsewhere, thus preserving his legacy without holding a referendum. :D


That would be a good get out of jail free card, if he needed it.

Well I did say he was c u n n i ng ......... :D



Well....the first 3 letters of the word c u nning could be used in an more apt description of certain political deviants.


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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:22 pm 
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bloodnock wrote:


Well....the first 3 letters of the word c u nning could be used in an more apt description of certain political deviants.


And a few non political ones

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 Post subject: Re: Independence
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:42 pm 
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The Tories this week will try to crank up the pressure on Alex Salmond to call a referendum sooner rather than later :shock: :shock: Tremble Tremble

Boy David to publish the legalities this week :wink: :wink:

Looking bad is Davey boy's "Feckin" "wenkir" tactic for 2012, happy new year :lol:
Apologies for my 2rettes :roll:

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