Taxi Driver Online

I can't agree with you there. You've only got to look at the debt of America, Britain and Europe to know something is badly wrong in the economy. I don't think you can call it, a “self-fulfilling prophecy” when in the middle of a recession/depression, with countries printing money based on nothing. Economic Armagedon is a worst-case scenario but maybe not that far from the truth, time will tell, but one things for sure, it's only going to get worse. There is no real solution in sight.

But part of the problem is that people are not spending money and businesses are not investing because they're lacking in economic confidence, and the reason for that is because of all the economic bad news.

I agree that there are other structural problems in the economy, but at the end of the day if people stop spending merely because of the doom-mongers then it's a vicious circle, and hence a self-fulfilling prophecy as regards those propogating the doom and gloom.

I don't entirely disagree, but prophesy suggests there is some sort of divine intervention at hand, in creating the collapse of the economy. The fact is, we know why it happened and what the consequences may ultimately be. I don't think the bankers, and governments got us here through divine inspiration.

I don't by the doom-mongers scenario or that it's a vicious circle either. A systemic structural failure is just that, collapse is inevitable at some point. It's only a matter of time.

I think, self-fulfilling prophecies, doom-mongers, and vicious circles are all symptomatic of naked greed, corruption, power and control.

Likewise I don't entirely disagree, but the fact is that if an economy slows down then it requires increased confidence - and thus spending - to get it going again, and thus if there's too much gloom and doom then people won't spend, others lose their jobs as a consquence, thus they can't spend, the doom and gloom means that those still with jobs won't spend, others still lose thier jobs and a vicious circle develops.

Of course, the downturn may well be due to other factors - such as the banking fiasco - but the whole thing is merely exacerbated by other factors such as confidence about the future.

Yes, but the above is all symptomatic of systemic failure. No one was thinking about vicious circles, self-fulfilling prophecies or the like before the economy started to blow up in their face. This was the preserve of doom-sayers and religious nuts predicting the apocalypse. Whatever the effect this way of thinking is having, and I'll give you that, it will have an effect. It's merely a consequence of those in power losing control of the situation. They created in the first place. Now all they are trying to do is to slow the collapse to a point where they can start over.

Of course they were, or at least to the extent that that's just rudimentary economics applying to any downturn.

There are clearly other factors in play peculiar to this particular recession, but the fundamentals apply to all of them.

Listen, the people that knew there was a problem were making [edited by admin] loads of money at the time, and looked the other way. The ones that didn't know, were kept in the dark by those who did, or simply didn't want to know, as it wasn't in their interests to say anything. It took years to make this mess. It didn't' happen over night. By the time the Doomsayers got a hold of it, it was already old news.

It's a bit like standing on the deck of the Titanic and me saying, Dusty; I think there's a real problem here, and you replying, everything's fine, skull, don't you know. This ship is unsinkable, there's nothing to worry about.

Now you could claim that I was spreading panic, on the other hand, the ship may really be sinking. If the economy has hit an iceberg, you, or I, talking about it, won't change a thing.

I know I'm taking things to an extreme, but the meltdown wasn't exactly a minor hiccup, 2008 - 2012 and still no end in sight.

Gaz, I'm not entirely sure why you're disputing what I'm saying because you seem to be ignoring that and going on about something else.

I'm not saying sentiment/confidence caused the recession or that it's the major factor in sustaining it.

What I'm saying simply is that it is a factor and it generally always figures in the equation, irrespective of what kicked the whole thing off or its relative importance in keeping the whole thing down.

I mean, if enough people are preaching the doomsday scenario like yourself and enough people give it credence then basic economics dictate that it exacerbates the situation and/or keeps the economy in the doldrums.



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... RlD846h2XY



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03330.html

I don't disagree with your points, but they are all symptomatic of a systemic failure. As I stated before, the monetary system's fundamental structure is based on greed, corruption, power and control. Its engine is the creation of excess wealth for the few, and very little for everyone else. The system simply collapsed under its own weight. It was inevitable.



Yes, I agree, but once again, the above quote speaks to the symptom and not the cause of the collapse. If people lack confidence, it's because of a lack of trust in those greedy corrupt self-serving individuals who caused the collapse in the first place.



What you should be asking yourself is, why are the people you've quoted focusing on what's making things worse or why they are slow to recover, and not what caused the collapse.

Perhaps, it doesn't serve their interests to change the system into something that shares the wealth more evenly and protects those they claim to represent.

Incidentally Dusty, if the monetary system was a patient suffering from some cognitive disorder, they would diagnose the cause before making a prognosis and recommending a course of therapy.

I really think, doomsayers, self-fulfilling prophecies and vicious circles, while true at least some extent, are used as a convenient red herring by those in power, in an attempt to remove focus from the real problem-THEMSELVES.

Your argument is not wrong. I just think you are buying into their double-speak.

So clearly you think I'm ignoring your point, and I think you're ignoring my point, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, particularly since I suspect no one else is even remotely interested either way

I don't think you are ignoring my point, nor I, yours but more like repeating the point they want you to make. You are right about no one else being interested but on this forum, it's not altogether a bad thing.