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OH dear priminister David Cameron has burst Bloodnock, Skull, and Jasbar,s bubble

Cameron's state of the union flop
Posted by Jamie Maxwell - 16 February 2012 17:34

The SNP will be delighted with the Prime Minister's lacklustre speech in Edinburgh.

Alex Salmond and David Cameron meet at St Andrew's House, Edinburgh. 16 February 2012.



Even before David Cameron delivered his speech in defence of the union in Edinburgh this afternoon, the Scottish National Party had already dismissed it as "threadbare and outdated". In retrospect, the nationalists could have added "ill-informed" and "underwhelming" and they still would have fallen slightly short of the mark.

　
It's safe to say that the Prime Minister's attempt today to develop a positive case for Scotland to remain within the United Kingdom probably won't be remembered as one of the turning points in the debate about Scotland's constitutional future.

　
On the contrary, Cameron gave the distinct impression of someone who hadn't seriously examined his opponent's arguments. At times, in fact, he gave the impression of someone who hadn't really examined his own. "Scotland", he said, "is richer and fairer as part of the UK". But the facts simply don't back this up. Over the last 35 - 40 years, North Sea oil production has generated as much as £300bn in tax revenues for the UK Exchequer, yet Scottish rates of income inequality have skyrocketed while social mobility has stagnated. Only a Home Counties Conservative could describe that as "fair".

　
The emotive elements of Cameron's address were similarly unpersuasive. "The link between our nations is a precious thing. It's about our history, our values, our shared identity". Well, of course. But just because two nations share some sense of an identity it doesn't mean they should also share a government, a parliament or a constitution. Few would deny the strength of the cultural relationship between Britain and Ireland. Fewer still believe the latter should re-join the UK because of it. Indeed, from a nationalist perspective, Cameron's decision to emphasise the common historical experiences of the Scots and the English will be seen as an indication of the intellectual weakness of unionism. Alex Salmond knows that the referendum will be won or lost on political and economic, rather than sentimental, grounds. Unionists should be worried that their leaders have not yet come to the same realisation.

　
Worse still, in claiming that the provisions contained within the Scotland Bill would give the Scottish Parliament tax raising powers "for the first time", Cameron revealed his poor grasp of the details of the current devolutionary settlement. Holyrood already has the power to vary income tax rates by 3p in the pound.

　
In reality, nationalists are quietly delighted with Cameron's apparent eagerness to be involved in the referendum campaign. The Tory brand remains contaminated north of the border and, since Thatcher, attempts by the Conservative Party to influence Scottish opinion have come across as hectoring and belligerent. What's more, every trip Cameron makes to Scotland serves as a reminder of how thin his mandate in the country is. It is common knowledge that support for the Tories in Scotland has fallen steadily over the last six decades. It less well known that if the coalition survives for the duration of this parliamentary session, Scots will have spent almost as many post-war years ruled by Westminster governments they didn't vote for as those they did.

　
This "democratic deficit" was one of a number of important issues Cameron failed to mention in Edinburgh today. But why would he? Before it became apparent that the union was genuinely under threat, the Tory leader had shown little interest in -- and therefore developed little understanding of -- Scotland and Scottish affairs. That absence of understanding -- on full display earlier -- will do the unionists no favours as the 2014 vote draws closer. Don't be surprised if Salmond is already busy trying to arrange the next the prime ministerial visit.


http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-s ... land-12288

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My heart is heavy, but my consience clear,
I voted Yes, without any fear.

They still don't get us, do they?

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My heart is heavy, but my consience clear,
I voted Yes, without any fear.

What a load of bull. C'mon Gusmac, tell us all how taking sovereignty from Westminster and giving it to Brussels is "Independence"?

Its amazing how one word ( C"mon) can give the impression of desperation get af yer knees ye numpty

Put the drink down and answer the question ffs

Thats about all I like about the Pro Independence brigade....the fact that they are the Vocal Minority

Tell us how leaving sovereignty with Westminster and letting them give it to Brussels is any better?

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

Well here your big chance to put a constructive case for the union.
Do try and leave you great granny out of it

Perhaps you can do better than your exalted leader.

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

I havent heard a case to leave the union yet.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Who cares what you've heard?
You don't get a say in it, unless you're planning to move farther north.

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

Answering a question wioth a question. Hmmmmm!

However, I will say that at least we'd be part of a bigger voice in a world that's coming together, not splitting apart. "Independence" is so yesterday. That's if we were really talking about independence. we're not.

Now call me an old cynic, but I reckon it's easier to express our voice in Westminster than it ever would be with the deaf ears in bureaucratic, unaccountable and undemocratic Brussels, working to their own agenda that has nothing to do with the real needs of Scots.

But wait, there ia another side to this. And that deserves a new thread.

Your an old cynic

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

Westminster coming together with the rest of Europe? Now you are having a laugh.
The UK government has opposed and held back every attempt by Europe to integrate further.
De Gaulle was right to oppose UK entry to Europe. He knew the English weren't Europeans.
The last 40 years have proven he was right.
The UK oppose everything, drag their heels and opt out of whatever they can.



The same "Independence" currently enjoyed by the UK as a whole?



I've never understood the unionist argument that big government (Westminster) is good, but bigger government (Europe) is bad.
From here, bureaucratic, unaccountable and undemocratic apply equally to Westminster.
Our 59 MP's are swamped by 601 MP's from the rest of the UK. You think that's a Union of Equals

You can express whatever you want in Westminster, it will only be carried to Europe if our interests coincide with those of the rest of this unequal union.
If it doesn't, it goes nowhere. The unimportant needs of a bunch of sweaties who don't vote Tory.
Secondary to whatever is more important to the more populous South-East of England.

As for Europe, I'd rather not be in it. I have said that before.
Maintaining the union subjects us to 2 levels of undemocratic rule.
Independence will rid of us of one of those. I'd call that an improvement.
The other we can sort out later.

Or we could just leave it for the English to do what is in our interests, instead of their own.
I won't hold my breath.
Be sure of one thing if we do:
In another 300 years, 2 more sweaty socks will still be having this discussion.
And feck all will have changed.

Independence is bigger than Salmond and it's bigger than the SNP.
It's just a shame you can't see past your dislike of them to see that.

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

A wee tune to brighten up your weekend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWt0qEJP ... e=youtu.be