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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:20 am 
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:34 am 
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Rich getting richer gus....whilst the rest of the nation suffer.....we are given the same lies from virtually all politicians, we're all in this together???

I hardly see the austerity measures affecting multi millionaires - in actual fact they benefit - because they're the ones with money they can buy everything at low low prices.

I seriously think the government are doing the austerity on purpose, why pay now? why cant they go to court, get in front of a judge and say we'd love to pay these debts but we can't afford them due to hardship, we're gonna pay at 50p per week - okay thats taking the p*ss but its what the rest of the world does.

Who actually benefits from doing all this stuff now?

Not us. I would suggest its the banks and money lenders that created the problem in the first place.

Its going to be interesting with Greece - they have f*ck all to sell - so unless the market raises an army what they gonna do?

If I was Greek - I'd tell the world to f*ck off.

CC

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:01 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
If I was Greek - I'd tell the world to f*ck off.

CC

So would I.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:04 pm 
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I agree, but then those in the pockets of the super rich would then have to represent to little people who elected them in the first place.

Although. the Greeks and the French are telling their politicians to feck off. =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Skull wrote:
I agree, but then those in the pockets of the super rich would then have to represent to little people who elected them in the first place.

Although. the Greeks and the French are telling their politicians to feck off. =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>



How quick are the new French government going to realise they cannot be the masters of their own and their people's destiny?

Maybe at that point the french people will kick off - they are leaders in this respect.

CC

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:20 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Skull wrote:
I agree, but then those in the pockets of the super rich would then have to represent to little people who elected them in the first place.

Although. the Greeks and the French are telling their politicians to feck off. =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>



How quick are the new French government going to realise they cannot be the masters of their own and their people's destiny?

Maybe at that point the french people will kick off - they are leaders in this respect.

CC


Absolutely, and that's exactly what we need here but the problem in this country is, Labour and the Lib Dem's are as bad as the Tory's.

I don't believe in socialism but without a credible socialist alternative. How do you force through change? eusasmiles.zip


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Skull wrote:

Absolutely, and that's exactly what we need here but the problem in this country is, Labour and the Lib Dem's are as bad as the Tory's.

I don't believe in socialism but without a credible socialist alternative. How do you force through change? eusasmiles.zip



I think you're sadly right, but it does appear that times are changing slightly.

But if you follow history you'll notice each recession eventually ends.....the Keynesian theory basically states when money is in surplus pay we should off the debt....when your in a recession you cant afford the debt, so why pay it - run the debt up to pay at a later date.

It's interesting to note....as i presume you did, the first and only people to benefit from Keynesian theory this time around were in fact the banks.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:17 am 
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#1 According to CNN, the level of selling by insiders at corporations listed on the S&P 500 is the highest that it has been in almost a decade. Do those insiders know something that the rest of us do not?

#2 Home prices in the United States have fallen for six months in a row and are now down 35 percent from the peak of the housing market. The last time that home prices in the U.S. were this low was back in 2002.

#3 It is now being projected that the Greek economy will shrink by another 5 percent this year.

#4 Despite wave after wave of austerity measures, Greece is still going to have a budget deficit equivalent to about 7 percent of GDP in 2012.

#5 Interest rates on Italian and Spanish sovereign debt are rapidly rising. The following is from a recent RTE article….

Spain’s borrowing rate nearly doubled in a short-term debt auction as investors fretted over the euro zone’s determination to deal with its debts.

And Italy raised nearly €3.5 billion in a short-term bond sale today but at sharply higher interest rates amid fresh concerns over the euro zone outlook, the Bank of Italy said.


#6 The government of Spain recently announced that its 2011 budget deficit wasmuch larger than originally projected and that it probably will not meet its budget targets for 2012 either.

#7 Amazingly, bad loans now make up 8.15 percent of all loans on the books of Spanish banks. That is the highest level in 18 years. The total value of all toxic loans in Spain is equivalent to approximately 13 percent of Spanish GDP.

#8 One key Spanish stock index has already fallen by more than 19 percentso far this year.

#9 The Spanish government has announced a ban on all cash transactionslarger than 2,500 euros. Many are interpreting this as a panic move.

#10 It is looking increasingly likely that a major bailout for Spain will be needed. The following is from a recent Reuters article….

Economic experts watching Spain don’t know how much money will be needed or precisely when, but some are near certain that Madrid will eventually seek a multi-billion euro bailout for its banks, and perhaps even for the state itself.

#11 Analysts at Moody’s Analytics are warning that Italy has now reached financially unsustainable territory….

“Italy is already out of fiscal space, in our estimate.” said Moody’s. “Its debt levels relative to GDP already exceed a manageable level. The manageable limit for Italian 10-year bond yields is estimated at 4.2pc. As of Wednesday, Italian 10-year yields were 5.46pc.”

#12 It is being projected that the Portuguese economy will shrink by 5.7 percent during 2012.

#13 There is even trouble in European nations that have been considered relatively stable up to this point. For example, the Dutch government collapsed on Monday after austerity talks broke down.

#14 The head of the IMF, Christine Lagarde, says that there are “dark clouds on the horizon” for the global economy.

#15 The top economist for the IMF, Olivier Blanchard, recently made this statement: “One has the feeling that at any moment, things could get very bad again.”

#16 A recent IMF report admitted that the current financial crisis could lead to the break up of the eurozone….

Under these circumstances, a break-up of the euro area could not be ruled out. The financial and real spillovers to other regions, especially emerging Europe, would likely be very large.

This could cause major political shocks that could aggravate economic stress to levels well above those after the Lehman collapse.


#17 George Soros is publicly declaring that the European Union could soon experience a collapse similar to what happened to the Soviet Union.

#18 A member of the European Parliament, Nigel Farage, stated during one recent interview that it is inevitable that some major banks in Europe will collapse….

There are going to be some serious banking collapses and the impact of that on some sovereign states, will be serious. I’m afraid we’ve gotten to a point where we really can’t stop this now. We’re beginning to reach a stage where however much false money you create, the problem becomes bigger than the people trying to solve it. We are very close to that point.

When I talk about the threats and the risk that this thing could wind up in some kind of rebellion, some sort of awful social cataclysm, they (other European politicians) are now very worried indeed. They will talk to you in private, but in public, nobody dares utter a word.

I think the deterioration, in the last two or three weeks, in the eurozone is very serious indeed. It’s the bond spreads in Italy and Spain. It’s the fact that youth unemployment is now over 50% in some of these Mediterranean countries.

It’s riot and disorder on the streets. And yet a month ago I was here and there was Herman Van Rumpuy telling us, ‘We’ve turned the corner. Everything is solved. There are no more problems with the eurozone.’ What a pack of jokers they look like.”


#19 The IMF is projecting that Japan will have a debt to GDP ratio of 256 percent by next year.

#20 Goldman Sachs is projecting that the S&P 500 will fall by about 11 percent by the end of 2012.

#21 Over the past six months, hundreds of prominent bankers have resigned all over the globe. Is there a reason why so many are suddenly leaving their posts?

#22 The 9 largest U.S. banks have a total of 228.72 trillion dollars of exposure to derivatives. That is approximately 3 times the size of the entire global economy. It is a financial bubble so immense in size that it is nearly impossible to fully comprehend how large it is.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/2 ... s_04262012

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:27 am 
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I don't know about anybody else but one of the main reasons to visit the likes of Spain, Greece, Italy and Portugal for holidays was the cost. Since they have joined the Euro costs have risen and tourism has fallen. Speaks volumes in my opinion, it may have been a bad decision to join the Euro in the first place although with incentives it may have seemed a good idea at the time. Kinda like getting married really the initial benefit is wiped out by the overall cost in the long term :D

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:30 am 
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toots wrote:
Kinda like getting married really the initial benefit is wiped out by the overall cost in the long term :D



:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:15 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Oi, did you pay me a royalty for the use of my picture :lol:


I like the new French guy myself, he's obviously been watching me posting for the last ten years and has adopted my model, more tax generated by working ppl and less benefit paid out because those that were on it now have a job, future and meaning.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:51 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
#1 According to CNN, the level of selling by insiders at corporations listed on the S&P 500 is the highest that it has been in almost a decade. Do those insiders know something that the rest of us do not?

#2 Home prices in the United States have fallen for six months in a row and are now down 35 percent from the peak of the housing market. The last time that home prices in the U.S. were this low was back in 2002.

#3 It is now being projected that the Greek economy will shrink by another 5 percent this year.

#4 Despite wave after wave of austerity measures, Greece is still going to have a budget deficit equivalent to about 7 percent of GDP in 2012.

#5 Interest rates on Italian and Spanish sovereign debt are rapidly rising. The following is from a recent RTE article….

Spain’s borrowing rate nearly doubled in a short-term debt auction as investors fretted over the euro zone’s determination to deal with its debts.

And Italy raised nearly €3.5 billion in a short-term bond sale today but at sharply higher interest rates amid fresh concerns over the euro zone outlook, the Bank of Italy said.


#6 The government of Spain recently announced that its 2011 budget deficit wasmuch larger than originally projected and that it probably will not meet its budget targets for 2012 either.

#7 Amazingly, bad loans now make up 8.15 percent of all loans on the books of Spanish banks. That is the highest level in 18 years. The total value of all toxic loans in Spain is equivalent to approximately 13 percent of Spanish GDP.

#8 One key Spanish stock index has already fallen by more than 19 percentso far this year.

#9 The Spanish government has announced a ban on all cash transactionslarger than 2,500 euros. Many are interpreting this as a panic move.

#10 It is looking increasingly likely that a major bailout for Spain will be needed. The following is from a recent Reuters article….

Economic experts watching Spain don’t know how much money will be needed or precisely when, but some are near certain that Madrid will eventually seek a multi-billion euro bailout for its banks, and perhaps even for the state itself.

#11 Analysts at Moody’s Analytics are warning that Italy has now reached financially unsustainable territory….

“Italy is already out of fiscal space, in our estimate.” said Moody’s. “Its debt levels relative to GDP already exceed a manageable level. The manageable limit for Italian 10-year bond yields is estimated at 4.2pc. As of Wednesday, Italian 10-year yields were 5.46pc.”

#12 It is being projected that the Portuguese economy will shrink by 5.7 percent during 2012.

#13 There is even trouble in European nations that have been considered relatively stable up to this point. For example, the Dutch government collapsed on Monday after austerity talks broke down.

#14 The head of the IMF, Christine Lagarde, says that there are “dark clouds on the horizon” for the global economy.

#15 The top economist for the IMF, Olivier Blanchard, recently made this statement: “One has the feeling that at any moment, things could get very bad again.”

#16 A recent IMF report admitted that the current financial crisis could lead to the break up of the eurozone….

Under these circumstances, a break-up of the euro area could not be ruled out. The financial and real spillovers to other regions, especially emerging Europe, would likely be very large.

This could cause major political shocks that could aggravate economic stress to levels well above those after the Lehman collapse.


#17 George Soros is publicly declaring that the European Union could soon experience a collapse similar to what happened to the Soviet Union.

#18 A member of the European Parliament, Nigel Farage, stated during one recent interview that it is inevitable that some major banks in Europe will collapse….

There are going to be some serious banking collapses and the impact of that on some sovereign states, will be serious. I’m afraid we’ve gotten to a point where we really can’t stop this now. We’re beginning to reach a stage where however much false money you create, the problem becomes bigger than the people trying to solve it. We are very close to that point.

When I talk about the threats and the risk that this thing could wind up in some kind of rebellion, some sort of awful social cataclysm, they (other European politicians) are now very worried indeed. They will talk to you in private, but in public, nobody dares utter a word.

I think the deterioration, in the last two or three weeks, in the eurozone is very serious indeed. It’s the bond spreads in Italy and Spain. It’s the fact that youth unemployment is now over 50% in some of these Mediterranean countries.

It’s riot and disorder on the streets. And yet a month ago I was here and there was Herman Van Rumpuy telling us, ‘We’ve turned the corner. Everything is solved. There are no more problems with the eurozone.’ What a pack of jokers they look like.”


#19 The IMF is projecting that Japan will have a debt to GDP ratio of 256 percent by next year.

#20 Goldman Sachs is projecting that the S&P 500 will fall by about 11 percent by the end of 2012.

#21 Over the past six months, hundreds of prominent bankers have resigned all over the globe. Is there a reason why so many are suddenly leaving their posts?

#22 The 9 largest U.S. banks have a total of 228.72 trillion dollars of exposure to derivatives. That is approximately 3 times the size of the entire global economy. It is a financial bubble so immense in size that it is nearly impossible to fully comprehend how large it is.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/2 ... s_04262012


It sounds like a Rome is burning, while Nero is fiddling, scenario. All you hear from the politicians is about their “economic recovery program.” I think the worst is yet to come and whatever they have planned for the economy. It isn't going to make a blind bit of a difference. :shock:


I'm only amazed it's taken this long to implode when you consider the size of the debt mountain, and the money printed to pretend it wasn't happening. :shock:

It's like the politicians have lost all perspective of the problems facing this country and the world as a whole. :-|


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:48 pm 
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there's a german guy on newsnight....talking about gweece.....and his hope that the greeks elect someone who'll stick by their obligations.

that'll be those obligations the previous politicians agreed, but not with the consent of the people and who were booted out last weekend.

ffs

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Greece is at the epicentre of a new euro crisis – and its chaos will spread


Members of the far-Right party Golden Dawn, who have made large gains in the Greek elections as the country's austerity bites

Contagion risks are back with a vengeance. With Greece edging towards the euro exit gates, pressure is building in familiar territories. Yields on Portuguese sovereign debt have spiked even more rapidly than those on Greek debt. Spanish and Italian borrowing costs are creeping up. The markets are pointing to another imminent euro crisis. And, once again, Greece is at the epicentre.

The people of Greece know what they don’t want – they don’t want any more austerity. If another election is called to sort out the mess of last weekend’s result (the talk is of holding one on June 17) and the result is again a roughly 70pc vote against austerity, it will probably mandate the government to ditch the bail-out.

That would mean a euro exit, a return to the drachma, a massive devaluation, and a default on the remaining private sector debt. If that is what the people of Greece do want, it carries enormous risks.

It would create unbearable tensions across Europe. The European Central Bank’s holdings of Greek sovereign debt would suffer losses, which would largely be transferred back to Germany. Even the original €109bn bail-out might face a write-down, which would leave British taxpayers taking a hit.

The last thing Greece could afford, though, would be to alienate the International Monetary Fund – also part of the original bail-out. The country is running a primary deficit, which means it spends more on public services than it raises in taxes even excluding interest payments. The balance has to be borrowed but, having defaulted on creditors, Greece would have locked itself out of the markets.

If it called for IMF assistance, a “programme” not dissimilar to the current one would be demanded.

If Greece refused the money, or if the IMF refused to lend, the consequences would be dire. With the economy plunged into immediate crisis by the currency’s collapse, an even more severe austerity would be thrust upon the people. There simply would not be the money to public sector pay wages, for example. With tensions seething, the neo-Nazis might even gain further ground.

The alternative would be a managed exit from the euro, one endorsed and arranged by Brussels. But that would only provide a template for Portugal and even Spain, where popular anger at austerity might direct policy down the same route. The outcome would be anathema to the political forces doing everything they can to salvage the euro project. In the meantime, the eurozone would have hit another, even more unpredictable, leg of its interminable journey.

By then, France’s elections would have been largely forgotten. Francois Hollande’s demand that growth be made part of Germany’s “fiscal compact” would probably have been resolved by a supplementary, loosely worded pact drawn up by Brussels bureaucrats. There might also have been a virtually unnoticeable slowing in fiscal austerity measures for the region. After all, Hollande’s growth plans for France are merely to balance the budget one year later than President Sarkozy.

The Franco-German alliance would be as strong as ever at the centre of the single currency. But there would be chaos in the periphery. It is no coincidence that German and French bond yields fell this morning, as the others rose.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ph ... ll-spread/

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