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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:34 am 
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gusmac wrote:
bloodnock wrote:

Yes the Union let a few in, But the Master Curry muncher himself is actively trying to encourage many many hundreds of thousands more to bung up this tiny country, your beloved Scottish bloodline is going to be diluted to the point of extinction, and it certainly wont be the English nor the Union that's going to be Scotland's biggest threat to a national identity, its going to be a million other Interlouper's from all around the globe, You should also get out more and look more closely at Scotland 2012, or at the very least have you eyes tested. :lol: :lol:


The union let a few in????
Like Elana Trump had a few pairs of shoes or Richard Branson has a few quid. Kid yerself on Britnat. your fooling nobody there, not even yourself.
BTW it's about nationality, not bloodline. Mine isn't as blue as yours.
As Tone pointed out, were all Scots. Even reluctant ones like you.


Heres the Rub Gusmac...My Kids cant live off pride pride alone, Its food in their bellys they need.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:43 am 
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gusmac wrote:

While we wait for Chomsky, perhaps you can tell us what would be different should we tick one of the other boxes?
Do they give you transparent government? NO
Are their politicians held directly accountable, by their electorate? NO
Do their elected officials represent our interest before their own or that of big business? NO

Why then do you single out the SNP and the independence movement for your venom when the UK and the unionist politicians are at least as bad?
Deeply held views? Maybe, but I don't think so [-X
If that were the only reason, you would despise both sides equally. Perhaps you do, but that's just not what's coming across here.

I'm reminded of the words of Winston Churchill on this one.
“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others that have been tried.”


Churchill did indeed say that, it was possibly prior to him releasing the Black and tans loose in Ireland, or perhaps him ordering thousands of men to their deaths at Gallipoli?

I think the answer to Skulls point is the funding of political parties.

There is very little difference between the main 3 in England, Scotland is different with the SNP, but even the SNP has moved more towards the centre from its previous stance which was more of a socialist agenda (which included a policy of Bus Nationalisation which was dropped after stagecoach started supporting them).

I think politicians are held accountable, every time there is an election. However, based on the problem I mention above, of them all being much of a muchness, does it really matter?

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:49 am 
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bloodnock wrote:

Heres the Rub Gusmac...My Kids cant live off pride pride alone, Its food in their bellys they need.


So you actually believe the rest of the UK subsidises you and your kids?

More fool you.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:59 am 
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captain cab wrote:

Churchill did indeed say that, it was possibly prior to him releasing the Black and tans loose in Ireland, or perhaps him ordering thousands of men to their deaths at Gallipoli?



He said it in 1947, presumably as the iron curtain came down over Europe.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:12 pm 
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captain cab wrote:

I think the answer to Skulls point is the funding of political parties.


I think it's unfortunate that Skull's point needs anyone else trying to explain it.
BTW I don't think that's his point at all.

Quote:
There is very little difference between the main 3 in England, Scotland is different with the SNP, but even the SNP has moved more towards the centre from its previous stance which was more of a socialist agenda (which included a policy of Bus Nationalisation which was dropped after stagecoach started supporting them).


http://news.stv.tv/politics/99570-campa ... fares-low/

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:46 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Still no answers then skull? Just the usual superior attitude and yet more questions.
Perhaps we will have to wait for Chomsky to answer for you?

Skull wrote:

Now ask yourself:

Is there total transparency of government – NO?

Are politicians held directly accountable, by their electorate -NO?

So why should your elected officials represent your interest before their own or that of big business?


Without transparency and accountability it's only a veneer of democracy, which benefits the super rich and their puppets the political class.

This is what you are really voting for when your tick goes in the box for the SNP. :-|


While we wait for Chomsky, perhaps you can tell us what would be different should we tick one of the other boxes?
Do they give you transparent government? NO
Are their politicians held directly accountable, by their electorate? NO
Do their elected officials represent our interest before their own or that of big business? NO

Why then do you single out the SNP and the independence movement for your venom when the UK and the unionist politicians are at least as bad?
Deeply held views? Maybe, but I don't think so [-X
If that were the only reason, you would despise both sides equally. Perhaps you do, but that's just not what's coming across here.

I'm reminded of the words of Winston Churchill on this one.
“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others that have been tried.”

I don't hate or despise the SNP, anymore than the rest of the political parties out there. The only reason I choose to attack the SNP, is because they are a prime example of how the “democratic" system fails the man on the street.

Without fundamental changes to the system, like transparency and accountability, it's more for them and less for us. Have a look at how the tax system works in favour of big business, but they would claim, “we're all in this together,” http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... About_Tax/ I don't think.

Yes, you can cast your vote every four years but the current system guarantees more of the same. There is nothing compelling politicians to put your interests before their own or that of big business.

Trust me on this Gusmac, if you vote SNP, nothing will change for the better and things may even get worse.

The new boss will be just like the old boss but with a Scots accent.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:59 pm 
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Skull wrote:
gusmac wrote:
Still no answers then skull? Just the usual superior attitude and yet more questions.
Perhaps we will have to wait for Chomsky to answer for you?

Skull wrote:

Now ask yourself:

Is there total transparency of government – NO?

Are politicians held directly accountable, by their electorate -NO?

So why should your elected officials represent your interest before their own or that of big business?


Without transparency and accountability it's only a veneer of democracy, which benefits the super rich and their puppets the political class.

This is what you are really voting for when your tick goes in the box for the SNP. :-|


While we wait for Chomsky, perhaps you can tell us what would be different should we tick one of the other boxes?
Do they give you transparent government? NO
Are their politicians held directly accountable, by their electorate? NO
Do their elected officials represent our interest before their own or that of big business? NO

Why then do you single out the SNP and the independence movement for your venom when the UK and the unionist politicians are at least as bad?
Deeply held views? Maybe, but I don't think so [-X
If that were the only reason, you would despise both sides equally. Perhaps you do, but that's just not what's coming across here.

I'm reminded of the words of Winston Churchill on this one.
“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others that have been tried.”

I don't hate or despise the SNP, anymore than the rest of the political parties out there. The only reason I choose to attack the SNP, is because they are a prime example of how the “democratic" system fails the man on the street.

Without fundamental changes to the system, like transparency and accountability, it's more for them and less for us. Have a look at how the tax system works in favour of big business, but they would claim, “we're all in this together,” http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... About_Tax/ I don't think.

Yes, you can cast your vote every four years but the current system guarantees more of the same. There is nothing compelling politicians to put your interests before their own or that of big business.

Trust me on this Gusmac, if you vote SNP, nothing will change for the better and things may even get worse.

The new boss will be just like the old boss but with a Scots accent.


Well I have no problem with a Scots accent, I've had one all my days. :lol:

So what would you replace the current system with?

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Gusmac writes:
Quote:
Well I have no problem with a Scots accent, I've had one all my days. :lol:

So what would you replace the current system with?



Without transparency, there is no means of holding public officials to account. We need all meetings open to the press and the public, with any information made freely available. It's the only way to stop authorities abusing the system for their own interests and representing that of big business, before their electorate. Even in you go to your councillor or MSP, with a problem, it should be properly recorded to make certain, he/she is not failing in their obligation to their job.

I would also want an independent arbiter with the power to deal with complaints and to settle matters at will.


Now Gusmac, if you can get Alec Salmond, to guarantee the above, if the SNP, are elected to power, you can have my vote. :-|


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:12 pm 
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Skull wrote:
Gusmac writes:
Quote:
Well I have no problem with a Scots accent, I've had one all my days. :lol:

So what would you replace the current system with?



Without transparency, there is no means of holding public officials to account. We need all meetings open to the press and the public, with any information made freely available. It's the only way to stop authorities abusing the system for their own interests and representing that of big business, before their electorate. Even in you go to your councillor or MSP, with a problem, it should be properly recorded to make certain, he/she is not failing in their obligation to their job.

I would also want an independent arbiter with the power to deal with complaints and to settle matters at will.


Now Gusmac, if you can get Alec Salmond, to guarantee the above, if the SNP, are elected to power, you can have my vote. :-|


The only thing I can guarantee is that a NO vote in 2014 will get you none of these things.....

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:20 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:
Gusmac writes:
Quote:
Well I have no problem with a Scots accent, I've had one all my days. :lol:

So what would you replace the current system with?



Without transparency, there is no means of holding public officials to account. We need all meetings open to the press and the public, with any information made freely available. It's the only way to stop authorities abusing the system for their own interests and representing that of big business, before their electorate. Even in you go to your councillor or MSP, with a problem, it should be properly recorded to make certain, he/she is not failing in their obligation to their job.

I would also want an independent arbiter with the power to deal with complaints and to settle matters at will.


Now Gusmac, if you can get Alec Salmond, to guarantee the above, if the SNP, are elected to power, you can have my vote. :-|


The only thing I can guarantee is that a NO vote in 2014 will get you none of these things.....


The only thing I can guarantee, is that a YES vote in 2014, will get me none of these things, either.

So Gusmac, tell me again, why I should vote SNP?

The old boss, the same as the new boss but with a Scott's accent, wouldn't you say? :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Skull wrote:
gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:


Without transparency, there is no means of holding public officials to account. We need all meetings open to the press and the public, with any information made freely available. It's the only way to stop authorities abusing the system for their own interests and representing that of big business, before their electorate. Even in you go to your councillor or MSP, with a problem, it should be properly recorded to make certain, he/she is not failing in their obligation to their job.

I would also want an independent arbiter with the power to deal with complaints and to settle matters at will.


Now Gusmac, if you can get Alec Salmond, to guarantee the above, if the SNP, are elected to power, you can have my vote. :-|


The only thing I can guarantee is that a NO vote in 2014 will get you none of these things.....


The only thing I can guarantee, is that a YES vote in 2014, will get me none of these things either.

So Gusmac, tell me again, why I should vote SNP?

The old boss, the same as the new boss but with a Scott's accent, wouldn't you say? :shock:


Vote for whoever you like, or none of the above. Your choice.

2014 is a vote for or against independence, not for any particular party.
Independence in 2014 doesn't guarantee who will be running the country by 2016.
You could even start your own movement and under PR you could end up in a position to change things.

Hell I'd vote for you. 8)

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:42 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Vote for whoever you like, or none of the above. Your choice.

2014 is a vote for or against independence, not for any particular party.
Independence in 2014 doesn't guarantee who will be running the country by 2016.
You could even start your own movement and under PR you could end up in a position to change things.

Hell I'd vote for you. 8)


=D>

I tend to think the SNP will last about 2 or 3 years after independence - at that point the americans will invade because they have oil.

If that doesnt happen, they'll get booted out and Scotland will go Labour or Conservative, as the nationalist party will have run its course.

CC

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Gusmac, I don't mean to be patronising but the system is the way that it is, because it works the way that it does.

The only way to change or beat the system is to stop playing their game, it will come, but maybe not in my lifetime.

2016 is playing their game, then it's 2020 and 2024, don't you get it. You are either one of them or one of us?

Now ask yourself, if transparency and accountability are, all I am looking for, what's the problem? :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:59 pm 
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I prefer Republican or Democrat but yes as gusmac says politics/political parties will evolve :D

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:00 pm 
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Private Reggie wrote:
I prefer Republican or Democrat but yes as gusmac says politics/political parties will evolve :D



Basically you prefer two sets of warmongers funded by the same corporations then?

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