Taxi Driver Online

Yes, I think that's what we've been discussing in the thread, Toots.

What do you mean by this?

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

Because as far as I know the drivers pass the same knowledge and driving tests etc, so unlike London (say), both HC and PH drivers are similarly qualified, so it's a single-tier as far as drivers are concerned.

So if HC numbers weren't capped then effectively the system would be single-tier, because there wouldn't be much point in running a PH and missing out on all that juicy street work

Of course, an added complication is that new Brighton HC plates have to be WAVs, so to that extent even with derestriction of HC numbers there would still be those who'd prefer to run a PH saloon.

Thus you could say that the driver sector in Brighton is single-tier, but the vehicle sector is two-tier because of restricted HC numbers, or indeed three-tier in that HCs are divided between saloons and compulsory WAVs.

Same as here then except we don't saloon HCs and they've now re-restricted

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

If they do downgrade then the riff-raff will be a big part of the trade.

Hopefully I wont be part of a spiral to the bottom PH trade.

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IDFIMH

I think your misguided, which is fairly polite of me; I'd like to know why they chose that bit when they had an entire report to pick bits out of.

I suppose you would expect me to answer my point, which is of course they are working to a preset agenda and merely gathering evidence that suits their cause.

The bits like virtual monopolies dont actually suit their 'free market' principles, so they get ignored.

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Well that's nice of you, but if you're fairly polite in the face of things you disagree with then I must be a paragon of saintly virtue.



Presumably because it particularly well illustrated the point they wanted to make about market failure, as equally presumably the case is when you use quotes for your own articles?



Indeed they've explicitly stated that their remit is essentially deregulatory and that it's guided by 'localism', and in a several other posts I've tried to suggest other reasons why their agenda might be constrained by less obvious political and/or vested interest influences.

Thus I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your point about a preset agenda (the difficult bit is to what extent it is preset and thus impossible to change), but I do think you're overegging the pudding a bit by accusing them of being selective in relation to Daryll Biggar.



Well it's an interesting point, and as I acknowledged in another post the concentration of power in the pre-booked market (monopoly, oligopoly, that sort of thing) and the resultant distortion of competition can be an issue both for customers and drivers.

Indeed there's been talk for years about the big supermarkets abusing thier market dominance in relation to suppliers like farmers, and I suppose a parallel could be drawn with drivers at the bottom of the cab trade pecking order.

But I don't really see all that kind of thing as being within the LC's remit and thus something they're likely to pay much attention to. (Although their section on employment status is again interesting as regards the economic power of circuits in relation to drivers and owner-drivers.)

It's perhaps more the domain of competition law and that sort of thing rather than the licensing side of regulation. Perhaps if the Competition Commission had been conducting the investigation - as I'd hoped would happen via an OFT reference in 2003 - then that sort of thing might have been more under consideration.

Thus I doubt if they're ignoring it because it "doesn't suit their free-market principles"; indeed quite the reverse. But I've never read a report of this type that's really went into that kind of thing in much detail.

Anyway, as a prominent advocate of restricted numbers and thus actual monopolies rather than what you describe as "virtual", isn't your concern here just a little bit rich?

Perhaps that's why the Competition Commission weren't asked to conduct the investigation

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

I think the normal route for a Competition Commission investigation is a reference following an OFT market study. But as I said recently the OFT taxi study back in the early 1990s seemed to avoid many of the more awkward questions and anything that would require major legislation, so to that extent they certainly wouldn't have been interested in referring it upstairs to the CC.

Thus to that extent it would not now have been a choice between the CC and the LC - the latter was the only real option.

On the other hand, it says on the CC's website that a reference could be made to it directly by the Sectetary of State (Vince Cable, I assume), thus missing out the OFT, but I suspect that's not a route that's followed often.

And it would have looked a bit ridiculous now either to have another OFT study that decided now that new legislation was required, or to go straight to the CC when the OFT had ignored that option a few years ago, but who knows?

If the trade wasn't a cinderalla subject then such things might have been discussed in the public domain, but of course no one apart from ourselves is really interested.

However, a CC reference via Vince Cable might have been preferable for us because since he's apparently a closet socialist he might have been more amenable to the social justice agenda rather than the economic efficiency one that appears to be the LC's remit.

On the other hand the SoS for Transport is Tory Justine Greening, so presumably when the LC reports to her social justice won't be uppermost in her thoughts.

On the other hand, the minister responsible for taxis is Norman Baker, and he's a Lib Dem, and it was of course him who got caught up in that Liverpool incident a couple of years ago.

Interestingly, he was also leader of Lewes Council a few years ago, and there's an effective one-tier system there (just worked out what Sussex was on about the other day regarding where he's now an MP).

On the other hand, I recall him at the TransComm meeting and he was asked about a single-tier system, and he poo-pooed that idea, and then reeled off the reasons why two tiers were required, which I thought betrayed a lack of understanding.

Anyway, that's perhaps getting away from the point a bit, and in any case the normal rules of politics don't seem to apply to the trades, so who knows what they're all thinking? And they never seem to demonstrate much of an understanding of the trade either, so probably no point in even discussing all this

[/quote]If councils keep control over PH then nothing would change here, which suits me just fine. I still don't see how the council will be able to keep the riff raff out in the future any more than they can already[/quote]




Absolutely given that we (GB) simply handcuff ourselves in red tape.

Many issues could be resolved by simply using the methods of logical thinking, the way it is right now I bet we have drivers licensed that the intelligence agencies know are up to no good regarding terrorism planning and illegal substance movements (and that isn't directed towards any one creed btw)

Makes a change from fare discounting and illegally plying for hire I suppose

Well all this thieving I see is making me think hey I can do it better, once I've saved up for my getaway Arctic and container I might be tempted to become a Lion Burglar, I hear the Volvo's handle the corner's quite well and the box is nice and punchy, lets see plod catch me once I've ungoverned her and fitted stage 5 ported and polished heads

It's interesting where they do quote Biggar;

He states in 2011;

"It is often pointed out that the typical customer is not able to assess how well the taxi vehicle has been maintained and whether or not it is safe and roadworthy. Neither can the customer assess whether or not the driver is competent and safe, nor whether he/she has a history of criminal tendencies. (To an extent, these concerns also apply to the driver – who usually cannot determine in advance whether the customer is unreliable or dangerous)."


A study from the USA stated in 1984;

"However, one would not expect cruising cabs or cabs using first-in-firstout stands to compete on the basis of quality, and cabs would not compete on the basis of aspects of quality that consumers cannot evaluate."

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Not sure what your point is, other than that the two statements are entirely consistent with each other?