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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:14 am 
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Sussex wrote:
blackpool wrote:
Cant believe some of the comments,there were lies corruption and cover ups and thats ok ? Have things really moved on that much ?Ian Tomlinson and another few spring to mind.Its not about the football people died and people lied about it,if it was someone close you lost you might feel different.

I think there's now a general consensus that many people f***ed up on and before that day, which eventually led to those very sad needless deaths.

Loads of people are correctly pointing the fingers at those in the establishment, but I'm also asking why those fighting the good fight never mention the appalling behaviour by some of the Liverpool fans before the game.

There appears to be a large dose of ignorance when it comes to their so-called own.

Build-upAs is usual in most domestic matches in England, Hillsborough was segregated between the opposing fans. The police chose to put the Nottingham Forest fans in the Spion Kop end of the ground, which had a capacity of 21,000. The Liverpool supporters were assigned to the Leppings Lane End of the stadium, which could hold 14,600 fans, even though Liverpool were regarded as having a larger support than Nottingham Forest,[14] the reason being that with the opposite arrangement the routes of the opposing fans would have had to cross each other. Kick-off for the match was scheduled for 3:00 pm, with fans advised to take up their positions fifteen minutes beforehand. On the day of the match, both radio and television advised that supporters without tickets should not attend.

It was reported that fans had been delayed by unannounced roadworks on the M62 motorway over the Pennines and the resulting road congestion. Between 2:30 pm and 2:40 pm, there was a big build-up of fans in the small area outside the turnstile entrances to the Leppings Lane End, all eager to enter the stadium quickly before the match started.[15]


The scene outside the ground as the disaster began.A bottleneck developed with more fans arriving than could enter the two cages in the middle of the Leppings Lane Stand. People who had been refused entry could not leave the area because of the crush behind them but remained as an obstruction. The fans outside could hear the cheering from inside as the teams came on the pitch ten minutes before the match started, and again as the match kicked off, but could not get in; the start was not delayed while the fans entered. In one instance, a small gate was opened to eject one person, and twenty people got into the ground through it.[16] A side gate was also opened to ease the build-up. With an estimated 5,000 fans trying to get through the turnstiles, and increasing security concerns over crushing outside the turnstiles, the police, to avoid deaths outside the ground, opened a set of gates, intended as an exit, which did not have turnstiles (Gate C).[17] This decision allowed a rush of supporters through the gate into the stadium.

[edit] The crushThe result was that many thousands of fans entered through a narrow tunnel at the rear of the terrace and into the two already overcrowded central pens, creating additional pressure at the front of the terrace. Hundreds of people were pressed against one another and against the fencing by the weight of the crowd behind them. The people entering were unaware of the problems at the fence; police or stewards would normally have stood at the entrance to the tunnel if the central pens had reached capacity, and would otherwise have directed fans into the side pens, but on this occasion they did not, for reasons which have never been fully explained.[18] A BBC TV news report later stated that if police had posted two police horses correctly, they would have acted as breakwaters directing many fans into side pens, but on this occasion, this was not done


I didn't know that you had gone to that match... what did you see...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:34 am 
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Wonder how many of the 'experts' who wrote and judged on the report attended the game?

Or were they looking for scapegoats from the start, or were they told to attribute blame?

No point of an enquiry with no attributed blame at the end. McPherson and Scarman comes to mind, both blown way out of proportion, but both amply rewarded for their 'expert' findings.

Well I, and I suspect many millions of others will have their own opinions and conclusions of what happened that day, and a panel of 'experts' ain't gonna change that in a hurry.

It's great being a free thinker. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:42 am 
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Sussex wrote:
blackpool wrote:
Cant believe some of the comments,there were lies corruption and cover ups and thats ok ? Have things really moved on that much ?Ian Tomlinson and another few spring to mind.Its not about the football people died and people lied about it,if it was someone close you lost you might feel different.

I think there's now a general consensus that many people f***ed up on and before that day, which eventually led to those very sad needless deaths.

Loads of people are correctly pointing the fingers at those in the establishment, but I'm also asking why those fighting the good fight never mention the appalling behaviour by some of the Liverpool fans before the game.

There appears to be a large dose of ignorance when it comes to their so-called own.

I think I have to disagree with you... I think what you should have written is that now for certain all the millions that have been conned... now know they've been lied to ... and manipulated by the police.... and in the months to come.. some of them people might go to court.. They might be prosecuted.... But whatever their sentences are will be nothing compared to the 23 years of torment their lies have put the families through....

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:44 am 
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GBC wrote:
Wonder how many of the 'experts' who wrote and judged on the report attended the game?

Or were they looking for scapegoats from the start, or were they told to attribute blame?

No point of an enquiry with no attributed blame at the end. McPherson and Scarman comes to mind, both blown way out of proportion, but both amply rewarded for their 'expert' findings.

Well I, and I suspect many millions of others will have their own opinions and conclusions of what happened that day, and a panel of 'experts' ain't gonna change that in a hurry.

It's great being a free thinker. :D
I must admit you had me thinking that you were there on that day...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:49 am 
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Nope, but i've seen plenty of matches and large events go pear shaped in my former life to have half an idea of what happens in these situations. :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:59 am 
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GBC wrote:
Nope, but i've seen plenty of matches and large events go pear shaped in my former life to have half an idea of what happens in these situations. :roll:

I am not quite sure of what you mean.... are you saying you condone the Lies..

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:36 am 
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MR T wrote:
I am not quite sure of what you mean


No, you're not, are you? :wink:

But regardless, its going round in circles, at the end of the day the we all make our own minds up on what really happened that day.

I don't need the Sun, the Government, a taxi forum or a panel of 'experts' making it for me.

End of thread for me. =D>


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:55 am 
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MR T wrote:
On the day of the match, both radio and television advised that supporters without tickets should not attend.
People who had been refused entry could not leave the area because of the crush behind them but remained as an obstruction.
With an estimated 5,000 fans trying to get through the turnstiles, and increasing security concerns over crushing outside the turnstiles, the police, to avoid deaths outside the ground, opened a set of gates, intended as an exit,

So there were ticketless fans there who had been advised not to attend.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:29 am 
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Someone said "a criminal conspiracy" indeed now lock up those guilty of it.

This police force also ran riot in the miners dispute met some of them meself nothing but ****'s in my opinion remember Orgreave?

These criminal police must be dealt with, to attempt to re-establish the Public's faith in OUR police service. 23 years not one whistle blower tells me and many much, this mob are a despicable criminal organisation!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:54 pm 
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The FA's mistakes.

1981. Former FA secretary Ted Croker was told of operational issues after FA Cup semi final between Spurs and Wolves. Spurs supporters club wrote to the FA to complain about crushing at Hillsborough. There was no reply.

1988. A Liverpool fan alerted the FA to crushing in Leppings Lane after semi v Forest. The FA failed to reply.

1989. The FA chose Hillsborough for the third year in a row, despite it not having a current safety certificate.

(source, Daily Telegraph)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:57 pm 
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grandad wrote:
MR T wrote:
On the day of the match, both radio and television advised that supporters without tickets should not attend.
People who had been refused entry could not leave the area because of the crush behind them but remained as an obstruction.
With an estimated 5,000 fans trying to get through the turnstiles, and increasing security concerns over crushing outside the turnstiles, the police, to avoid deaths outside the ground, opened a set of gates, intended as an exit,

So there were ticketless fans there who had been advised not to attend.


There are ticketless fans outside every major sporting and music event, even saw them at Wimbledon, hoping to get hold of spare tickets.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:15 pm 
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grandad wrote:
MR T wrote:
On the day of the match, both radio and television advised that supporters without tickets should not attend.
People who had been refused entry could not leave the area because of the crush behind them but remained as an obstruction.
With an estimated 5,000 fans trying to get through the turnstiles, and increasing security concerns over crushing outside the turnstiles, the police, to avoid deaths outside the ground, opened a set of gates, intended as an exit,

So there were ticketless fans there who had been advised not to attend.

I get the feeling you don't like football fans, in fact it comes across as you see them as hooligans and rioters and ......... well all the football fans I know are ordinarily people, people that work in shops, factories, drive taxis, teaches. doctors. nurses.. and even policemen. and as for not having a ticket...... people go there hoping to buy one, that's their choice..... it seems people from Yorkshire according to the radio today are having problems coming to terms with the truth....
ps... I should imagine that fans from the other team were also looking for tickets.... was what happened their fault....

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:45 pm 
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[quote="MR T"] and as for not having a ticket...... people go there hoping to buy one, that's their choice.[quote]
The report states that fans were turned away at the turnstiles. Now to me that does not seem that they were trying to buy a ticket from a tout or anyone else. They were trying to get into an already overcrouded ground. For your information, I am a Forest fan who wasn't there that day. Do you know why I wasn't there? It was because I couldn't get a ticket so I did the right thing and stayed at home.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:39 pm 
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grandad wrote:
The report states that fans were turned away at the turnstiles. Now to me that does not seem that they were trying to buy a ticket from a tout or anyone else. They were trying to get into an already overcrouded ground. For your information, I am a Forest fan who wasn't there that day. Do you know why I wasn't there? It was because I couldn't get a ticket so I did the right thing and stayed at home.



I went there without a ticket in the hope of buying a ticket when I got there, I was with 3 mates from a little village in Cumbria, 18 years old and perhaps a little stupid; we left Sheffield before anything happened, but I can say I didn't see any overly drunken fans or people climbing over walls - and all the sh*t that was stated by the media at the time.

Even ignoring the lies and police cover up which was found out this week and the dertermination of the authorities to blame the fans for the disaster - the Taylor report immediately after blamed the failure of police control.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:03 pm 
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