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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:51 am 
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Skull wrote:

Dougie, we are talking about opening up government up to public scrutiny. The technology already exists to make politicians and political parties in their present form, almost redundant. We, the people are the official observers. Government business is our business because their decisions directly affect us.
I don’t need a bunch of public school boys sucking up to private interest and then telling me, what is for my own good? If I have access to the information, I need, and I can view the arguments for and against. I am quite capable of making up my own mind. :-|


So am I reading you right?
You want to eliminate politics completely and have everyone making every decision via their computer?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:11 am 
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gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:
Transparency of government is the way to make public officials responsible and accountable for the public interest. At the moment, the only thing they are serving is themselves and that of private interests.

Isn't that the nature of the beast though? Unless you ban all political donations, it's always going to be the case that those with money will buy influence, be it rich individuals like Griffen or Souter, big businesses or trade unions?
And if you did ban all such donations, how are political parties to be funded, without allegations of bribery etc?

Skull wrote:
As for achieving the above, it's a matter of public will. It matters not a jot who's running the show. It's always comes down to the same thing. :-|


Yes it is a matter of public will.

A newly independent Scotland will have expectations of it's politicians that a disenchanted and disillusioned British public don't and wont. Whether that will translate into the accountability you seek is another matter. I think probably not, since nothing would really satisfy you.
I'm sure of one thing, it won't ever happen under the union. That shower of shecht can't even get rid of the House of Lords.


The likes of Griffen and Souter pale into insignificance under the eye of public scrutiny. They are then working for us, and if they want to reap their rewards, it's by making a Scotland fit for everyone to live in.

Oh and I agree. A newly independent Scotland would have certain expectations. The only thing is, we are not included as an equal partner in their master plan. Our opinions don't really count.

If the system doesn't change in the way, I have stated above, you can expect more of the same, and you can take that to the bank.

If it's any consolation Gusmac, I think your heart is in the right place, but unfortunately, you are dealing with the kind of people who don't even have a pulse. :-|


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:20 am 
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gusmac wrote:

A newly independent Scotland will have expectations of it's politicians that a disenchanted and disillusioned British public don't and wont.


Now thats a rather weird statement - whilst I'm sure your Scottish - I'm also sure you aint got a crystal ball.

Expectation is only expressed by those whom actually vote - those that dont can't reasonably expect anything.

Sunset made some pretty decent points regarding Scots politicians - so based upon the expectation that the SNP - the main advocates for Scots independence - will change their policies when Stagecoach offer them a few quid - I presume the disillusioned Scottish public will be the same as the disillusioned British public?

Indeed - the idiocy of the suggested legal advice on Europe - something the Scoittish government weren't exactly transparent about does give a degree of weight to Skull's suggestion - although the fact people couldnt find out the truth does tend to lessen his view that transparency is there.

Summing up - I hope Scots vote for independence - but the current crop of their politicians are beginning to fail very quickly - indeed - when they appear to be scrutinized they seem completely hopeless - policies on the hoof and anything for a soundbite.

I agree with Gus though tbh - it'll change come independence - the scots nats will very probably split up into many different parts.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:34 am 
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captain cab wrote:
gusmac wrote:

A newly independent Scotland will have expectations of it's politicians that a disenchanted and disillusioned British public don't and wont.


Now thats a rather weird statement - whilst I'm sure your Scottish - I'm also sure you aint got a crystal ball.

Expectation is only expressed by those whom actually vote - those that dont can't reasonably expect anything.

Sunset made some pretty decent points regarding Scots politicians - so based upon the expectation that the SNP - the main advocates for Scots independence - will change their policies when Stagecoach offer them a few quid - I presume the disillusioned Scottish public will be the same as the disillusioned British public?

Indeed - the idiocy of the suggested legal advice on Europe - something the Scoittish government weren't exactly transparent about does give a degree of weight to Skull's suggestion - although the fact people couldnt find out the truth does tend to lessen his view that transparency is there.

Summing up - I hope Scots vote for independence - but the current crop of their politicians are beginning to fail very quickly - indeed - when they appear to be scrutinized they seem completely hopeless - policies on the hoof and anything for a soundbite.

I agree with Gus though tbh - it'll change come independence - the scots nats will very probably split up into many different parts.


I think when it comes right down to it. I don't think the vote for Independent will even come close. And that will be the end of it. :-|


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:01 am 
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captain cab wrote:
gusmac wrote:

A newly independent Scotland will have expectations of it's politicians that a disenchanted and disillusioned British public don't and wont.


Now thats a rather weird statement - whilst I'm sure your Scottish - I'm also sure you aint got a crystal ball.


No crystal ball needed to work out that expectations are going to be raised in an independent Scotland, surely?

Scots have no expectations of the unionist parties, except more cuts, more austerity, more of the were in it together, more money wasted on WMDs when we can't fix our roads.......They've all charted the same course and are arguing over the deckchairs. You can't put a fag paper between any of them on real policy.
Should we vote NO, we can see where it's going and it's not a pretty picture.
There's nothing weird about it.

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Expectation is only expressed by those whom actually vote - those that dont can't reasonably expect anything.

Since when did reasonable have anything to do with it? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:05 am 
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Skull wrote:

I think when it comes right down to it. I don't think the vote for Independent will even come close. And that will be the end of it. :-|


Well if you think that will be the end of it, you don't know the average Scot. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:14 am 
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gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:

I think when it comes right down to it. I don't think the vote for Independent will even come close. And that will be the end of it. :-|


Well if you think that will be the end of it, you don't know the average Scot. :wink:


Your average scot, isn't even talking about independence let alone wanting to vote for it. :-|


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:37 am 
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Skull wrote:
gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:

I think when it comes right down to it. I don't think the vote for Independent will even come close. And that will be the end of it. :-|


Well if you think that will be the end of it, you don't know the average Scot. :wink:


Your average scot, isn't even talking about independence let alone wanting to vote for it. :-|


You think that'll stop him thinking he's been cheated later, if he doesn't get it? :badgrin:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:02 am 
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Oh please, stop all of this, Scotland the brave, when the time comes, all the little tartan people will come out in support of independence. You’re actually making me cringe. :oops: #-o


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:04 am 
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Skull wrote:
Oh please, stop all of this, Scotland the brave, when the time comes, all the little tartan people will come out in support of independence. You’re actually making me cringe. :oops: #-o


Something I said? :D

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:13 am 
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Quote:
Scots have no expectations of the unionist parties, except more cuts, more austerity, more of the were in it together, more money wasted on WMDs when we can't fix our roads.......They've all charted the same course and are arguing over the deckchairs. You can't put a fag paper between any of them on real policy.
Should we vote NO, we can see where it's going and it's not a pretty picture.
There's nothing weird about it.



I see, so independence will end the world recession.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:45 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Quote:
Scots have no expectations of the unionist parties, except more cuts, more austerity, more of the were in it together, more money wasted on WMDs when we can't fix our roads.......They've all charted the same course and are arguing over the deckchairs. You can't put a fag paper between any of them on real policy.
Should we vote NO, we can see where it's going and it's not a pretty picture.
There's nothing weird about it.



I see, so independence will end the world recession.


Salmond, MacAskill and Sturgeon want an independent Scotland whatever the cost. They are not remotely interested in the World economic crisis. :-|


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:52 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Quote:
Scots have no expectations of the unionist parties, except more cuts, more austerity, more of the were in it together, more money wasted on WMDs when we can't fix our roads.......They've all charted the same course and are arguing over the deckchairs. You can't put a fag paper between any of them on real policy.
Should we vote NO, we can see where it's going and it's not a pretty picture.
There's nothing weird about it.



I see, so independence will end the world recession.
Austerity, tax cuts for the uber rich and £100,000,000,000 on nuclear weapons will?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:36 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Wwi5B3 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kUnCwV3AYE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vkYiCdn ... ure=fvwrel

personally I prefer this one; you bunch of oppressive british cnuts :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4Y6TlZ7uLk :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:45 am 
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in retrospect, the vindaloo one is a fairly fair representation tbh :lol:

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