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 Post subject: Re: In or Out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:32 am 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
trotskys twin wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
No planning went into the 84/85 strike, they should have worked to rule 83/84. waited to the winter hit but also getting 1 majority vote nationwide wouldnt have hurt



Surely the majority VOTED with their FEET ie walked out definitely the best type of VOTE in my experience.





i DONT LIKE HAVING THE RAILWAYS WATER GAS ELECTRICTY MINES CAR MANUFACTURING ETC BEING CONTROLLED FROM OUTSIDE AND THE PROFITS GOING ABROARD TIME TO STOP IT ??????????????????????????????????? :D :D


TT, where do all the ex-MP's end up?......(hint Kinnock)......theres the reason we will never leave the EU


PS, the "walk out" vote is illegal, are you advocating breaking the law?


illegall so fukking what I dont acquiesce to anti union laws from anyone!!
i have broke them many times and will continue to do so at every opportunity just like i would fight against racist laws ie GASSING JEWS etc :evil:

Labour will repeal them next time round we have less working rights than in any other western European Nation.

So you happy watching profits from our utilities going abroard see you dodged that one ???

Kinnock you wont believe this but I hate that kunnnt more than Thatcher a real piece of shyyyyyyyyytte :evil: :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: In or Out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:50 am 
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trotskys twin wrote:

Labour will repeal them next time round we have less working rights than in any other western European Nation.



Yer having a laugh.
They won't, any more than they did during the last 13 years they had in government.

They won't do anything that will scare the middle class of South Britain.

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 Post subject: Re: In or Out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:30 am 
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Labour will repeal them next time round we have less working rights than in any other western European Nation.


If I remember correctly it was Labour that opted out of the "working time directive". I think that it leaves us as one of the few that makes sure that the onus is put on the employee to work more hours than they should! Otherwise if you do not work more hours and you do take your breaks.............you do not get promoted..........and you will be first out of the door.

Trotsky the days of sanys at number 10 are well finished, Bliar saw to that. Do not think for one minute that the Labour party are your buddies! whilst they may need your monies! once in they could not give a sh!t and will just reinvent themselves with different personnel and different lies/policies at the (whenever) next election.

People tend to get lost in the ideology of politics i.e (Labour for the working man).

Just to give you an actual example............I am Cardiff born and bred but live on the fringe of the valleys (10 miles north of Cardiff). The last election I was so p!ssed off with Bliar and Brown I was going to vote Lib Dems! I then heard that they might get into bed with Labour if there was a hung parliament so I tactically voted for the Conservative party.............there was no way I wanted Labour in! under normal circumstances I would not even bother to vote as politics is so corrupt, but I did what I thought was right.

Going down to the polling booth I was met by a member of the public who cheerfully asked was I on my way to vote, to which I replied yes, and asked him the same question! He said that he was not sure but would probably vote Labour if he did bother - I asked why? he came back with the dyed in the wool entrenchment of..... my, my wife's,grannies great uncle always votes labour so I guess it is in the family! All I said to the guy was - Tell me, what has the Labour party ever done for the "Valleys".............I think to this day he is still stood there blinking, and trying to find an answer.

The above is a true story. What I am trying to say to you is, do not to get blinkered into believing that the Labour party is the same as 40 years ago............Bliar was a rehashed Conservative and many of his ilk will go the same route to achieve their political aims.

Make no mistake they will not alter the "Working time directive"............Ummm, we would like to - but we cannot afford it - perhaps we will look at in the next parliament.........alooooong with the referendum :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: In or Out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:02 pm 
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cabby john wrote:
Quote:
Labour will repeal them next time round we have less working rights than in any other western European Nation.


If I remember correctly it was Labour that opted out of the "working time directive". I think that it leaves us as one of the few that makes sure that the onus is put on the employee to work more hours than they should! Otherwise if you do not work more hours and you do take your breaks.............you do not get promoted..........and you will be first out of the door.

Trotsky the days of sanys at number 10 are well finished, Bliar saw to that. Do not think for one minute that the Labour party are your buddies! whilst they may need your monies! once in they could not give a sh!t and will just reinvent themselves with different personnel and different lies/policies at the (whenever) next election.

People tend to get lost in the ideology of politics i.e (Labour for the working man).

Just to give you an actual example............I am Cardiff born and bred but live on the fringe of the valleys (10 miles north of Cardiff). The last election I was so p!ssed off with Bliar and Brown I was going to vote Lib Dems! I then heard that they might get into bed with Labour if there was a hung parliament so I tactically voted for the Conservative party.............there was no way I wanted Labour in! under normal circumstances I would not even bother to vote as politics is so corrupt, but I did what I thought was right.

Going down to the polling booth I was met by a member of the public who cheerfully asked was I on my way to vote, to which I replied yes, and asked him the same question! He said that he was not sure but would probably vote Labour if he did bother - I asked why? he came back with the dyed in the wool entrenchment of..... my, my wife's,grannies great uncle always votes labour so I guess it is in the family! All I said to the guy was - Tell me, what has the Labour party ever done for the "Valleys".............I think to this day he is still stood there blinking, and trying to find an answer.

The above is a true story. What I am trying to say to you is, do not to get blinkered into believing that the Labour party is the same as 40 years ago............Bliar was a rehashed Conservative and many of his ilk will go the same route to achieve their political aims.

Make no mistake they will not alter the "Working time directive"............Ummm, we would like to - but we cannot afford it - perhaps we will look at in the next parliament.........alooooong with the referendum :roll:


John actually it was John Major who opted out of the WTD.That opt out has now expired its complex legislation that is continually ignored WHY because as you say it affects profits and those responsible for its implementation are being CUT!!!! Its a scandal the number of hours Drivers work and the worst offenders Foreign lorry Drivers, AND CAB and chauffeur drivers!!! Rest assured this issue will be raised to prominence if we get a Labour government and I mean Labour NOT FEKKING NEW LAbBOUR !!

Labour has betrayed you of course, and you voted for the party that will oppress you? strange ??

Labour wont change unless the working class join and change it it can be pushed left we watched that in London with Ken Livingstone, the tory's will never do anything but look after their own TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH and you vote for them i am astounded the NHS could be destroyed you VOTED FOR IT Labour will never do any of that despite Bliars reign. The cure for our nation is not turning right but turning left in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: In or Out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:44 pm 
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Trots, how do you manage to type in tha new jacket?.....lol


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 Post subject: Re: In or Out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:10 pm 
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trotskys twin wrote:
John actually it was John Major who opted out of the WTD.

I believe that Labour won the election in 1997. The working time directive didn't come into force until 1998.

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 Post subject: Re: In or Out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:32 pm 
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The Working Time Directive 2003/88/EC is a European Union Directive, which creates the right for EU workers to a minimum number of holidays each year, paid breaks, and rest of at least 11 hours in any 24 hours; restricts excessive night work; and makes a default right to work no more than 48 hours per week. It was issued as an update on earlier versions from 22 June 2000 and 23 November 1993. Excessive working time being cited as a major cause of stress, depression and illness, the stated purpose of the Directive is to protect people's health and safety.

An individual worker can validly agree to opt out of the permitted working hours limits imposed by the Working Time Regulations 1998 (WT regs 1998, reg 5). He or she can validly agree to work more than the average 48 hours per week maximum provided for by WT regs 1998, reg 4 (see Working Time Regulations/average 48 hour max working week ).

A worker nevertheless has protection against being forced to work long hours because it is unlawful to subject him or her to any detriment for refusing to sign an opt out agreement (see Working Time Regulations/victimisation ).

The wording (WT regs 1998, reg 4(1) and WT regs 1998, reg 5) makes it clear that an opt-out agreement must be in writing, must be revocable and must be made by the individual concerned. Therefore it would not be valid if in a collective agreement or a workforce agreement even if the collective agreement is specifically referred to in the relevant worker's employment contract (see Bernhard Pfeiffer and others v Deutches Rotes Kreuz, ECJ joined cases C-397/01 to C-403/01 on 5th October 2004). However there is nothing in the current rules requiring an opt-out agreement to be in a separate document and it can therefore be valid if, for example, it is included in a normal contract of employment.

There have been recent attempts in Europe to change the EC Working Time Directive 2003/88/EC in a way which would make it unlawful to allow a person to work more than 48 hours average per week (in other words, to remove the provision which allows a Member State to provide that an individual worker can validly agree to opt out of the permitted working hours limits).

After much discussion and negotiation over several years these attempts finally failed in April 2009. As there was no agreement to the contrary, the current directive remains in force and therefore the "opt-out", as well as the current reference period provisions which were also to have been changed, remain unaltered.

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 Post subject: Re: In or Out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:35 pm 
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grandad wrote:
trotskys twin wrote:
John actually it was John Major who opted out of the WTD.

I believe that Labour won the election in 1997. The working time directive didn't come into force until 1998.


Grandad I believe and i'm no lawyer that the date your referring to is when it came into operation here, in the UK Major achieved a ten year opt out from around 87 I believe its full of holes but maybe better than nothing, I am aware of Drivers being locked up for excessive hours BUT only when there has been an accident involving a fatality, was given this briefing by a professor in SLEEP DEPRIVATION from LOUGHBOROUGH UNIVERSITY SLEEP DEPRAVATION UNIT some years ago in the House of Commons at a meeting on working hours in road transport also sponsoring the meeting with the GMB were Brake the road transport charity. I am sure Brake could clear up your question. tt

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 Post subject: Re: In or Out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:37 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
The Working Time Directive 2003/88/EC is a European Union Directive, which creates the right for EU workers to a minimum number of holidays each year, paid breaks, and rest of at least 11 hours in any 24 hours; restricts excessive night work; and makes a default right to work no more than 48 hours per week. It was issued as an update on earlier versions from 22 June 2000 and 23 November 1993. Excessive working time being cited as a major cause of stress, depression and illness, the stated purpose of the Directive is to protect people's health and safety.

An individual worker can validly agree to opt out of the permitted working hours limits imposed by the Working Time Regulations 1998 (WT regs 1998, reg 5). He or she can validly agree to work more than the average 48 hours per week maximum provided for by WT regs 1998, reg 4 (see Working Time Regulations/average 48 hour max working week ).

A worker nevertheless has protection against being forced to work long hours because it is unlawful to subject him or her to any detriment for refusing to sign an opt out agreement (see Working Time Regulations/victimisation ).

The wording (WT regs 1998, reg 4(1) and WT regs 1998, reg 5) makes it clear that an opt-out agreement must be in writing, must be revocable and must be made by the individual concerned. Therefore it would not be valid if in a collective agreement or a workforce agreement even if the collective agreement is specifically referred to in the relevant worker's employment contract (see Bernhard Pfeiffer and others v Deutches Rotes Kreuz, ECJ joined cases C-397/01 to C-403/01 on 5th October 2004). However there is nothing in the current rules requiring an opt-out agreement to be in a separate document and it can therefore be valid if, for example, it is included in a normal contract of employment.

There have been recent attempts in Europe to change the EC Working Time Directive 2003/88/EC in a way which would make it unlawful to allow a person to work more than 48 hours average per week (in other words, to remove the provision which allows a Member State to provide that an individual worker can validly agree to opt out of the permitted working hours limits).

After much discussion and negotiation over several years these attempts finally failed in April 2009. As there was no agreement to the contrary, the current directive remains in force and therefore the "opt-out", as well as the current reference period provisions which were also to have been changed, remain unaltered.


There's about 40 pages of it if I remember rightly and like most EU legislation virtually indecipherable #-o

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 Post subject: Re: In or Out
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:39 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
Trots, how do you manage to type in tha new jacket?.....lol


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Can I have mine in RED please :D :D :D mush

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