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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:52 pm 
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In addition the council has posted this notice.
Notes
Fee Increase codes:
B = Licensing Board has discretion to set its own fee
M = Licensing Board sets its own fee up to a maximum prescribed by legislation
C = Council has discretion to set its own fee
L = Legislation prescribes the fee which must be charged
P = Charges detailed in the council’s Publication Scheme
VAT is charged at 20%


All Taxis and Private Hire fees are noted as fare increase C

Do they really? Or am I misreading the statement?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:10 pm 
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Quote:
. We point out this is not correct and are told that if all costs were added up it would be even higher, so don't push it.


That seems to be a standard scaremongering tactic and one that was said at the meeting this week with our council.
My answer is that if all costs are correctly accounted and the costs work out at more than anticipated, so be it but the important part is that they are correct.

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Grandad,
old fart with no heart


I agree to a point? But you will have to consider best value? If a council elsewhere can licence the same amount of vehicles and drivers for half the cost? Then your council will not be providing best value?By virtue of the Local Government Act 1999 the authority is required to carry out such comparison.of course grandad's council can't do this,because they have no accounts for taxi licensing? So how can they do a best value under the act?

So you could put in a request? Ie

Grandad requests the Council to:-


i) Set aside the proposed variation of fees as advertised

And

ii) Instruct officers to initiate a review of the Council’s current policies and charging /cost allocations in relation to the determination of fees and charges for the licensing functions it carries out under the provisions of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 and the Local Government( Miscellaneous Provisions ) Act 1976.

The review to be conducted with due consideration for the principles of ‘Best Value’ legislation and in comparison with charges levied by other authorities discharging similar functions.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:39 pm 
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Cabhappy wrote:
Any further advice appreciated.

They must ( :roll: ) have had the accurate budget outgoings to work out what they need to finance the taxi/PH licensing function. So why wait to May?

Have you asked any of this under the FoI Act?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:49 pm 
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Cabhappy wrote:
VAT is charged at 20%

:-k

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:52 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Cabhappy wrote:
Any further advice appreciated.

They must ( :roll: ) have had the accurate budget outgoings to work out what they need to finance the taxi/PH licensing function. So why wait to May?

Have you asked any of this under the FoI Act?


Thanks Sussex,
No they have not produced any sort of costings in years, just added the same percentage as all other council charges each 1st April. It took 12 months to get them to agree to produce figures, apparently 3 months to get the information and another 5 months to produce a report.
As they now know we are on the case we didn't expect them to do it again. Now that they have , and by way of researching what to do next I came across this thread.

So Monday morning we will ask for rise to be suspended and ask the relevant FOI questions.

I am way out of my depth though and hoping they don't realise.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Cabhappy wrote:
I am way out of my depth though and hoping they don't realise.

No need to feel out of your depth.

They are asking for an increase, you are asking them to justify it.

If they can show that the increase is justified, then I doubt anyone has a problem with that.

But they need to show you they aren't guessing. I suspect they are.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:04 pm 
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They have been guessing, and have conceded that.

Their justification for rise in each Taxi category is given as code C. " C = Council has discretion to set its own fee"
Been chipping away but as they just keep putting back the production of accounts, with this rise I think it is we have to lodge objection now.
Would like to be able to refer to the correct legislation along with the Civic Govt (S) Act.


In Scotland where is I best to refer to. Traffic commissioner or ombudsman or both.?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:15 am 
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I doubt the Traffic Commissioner would be involved in much to do with taxi licencing. He deals with lorry and bus matters.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:00 am 
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Not according to Skippy 41


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Civic Government
(Scotland) Act 1982

A licensing authority shall charge such fees in respect Fees for taxi
of taxi and private hire car licences and applications for such and private
licences as may be resolved by them from time to time and shall car
seek to ensure that the total amount of such fees is sufficient
icences.
to meet the expenses incurred by them in carrying out their
functions under sections 10 to 23 (other than section 19) of
this Act in relation to such licences


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:32 pm 
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Request for suspension of increase sent today citing
the lack of an advert of he intent to do so
an ongoing consultation following complaint made April 2012
and the lack of a published account of costs.

FOI questions previously suggested have also been sent.

Reply received pointing out that all variable fees were increased not just licensing fees and promising a reply to questions by Fri 3rd May.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:00 pm 
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Cabhappy wrote:
Reply received pointing out that all variable fees were increased not just licensing fees and promising a reply to questions by Fri 3rd May.

You couldn't give a f*** about other licenses, all you want is for those being aimed at you to be justified.

I think the Traffic Commissioner deals with fares up there, not fees. (happy to be told otherwise)

Therefore it's the Ombudsman.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:59 pm 
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grandad wrote:
This is the latest email I have sent to the complaints department. I have also copied the Chief Executive in the email.

Dear sir or madam,
I wish to make a complaint about the way the licensing department has handled the increase in fees that came into force on April 1st 2013.
I believe that the way in which the fees were increased was unlawful because the correct procedure as laid out in the local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) act 1976 section 70 were not followed. Paragraph 5 of the act states that
"If objection is duly made as aforesaid and is not withdrawn, the district council
shall set a further date, not later than two months after the first specified date, on
which the variation shall come into force with or without modification as decided by
the district council after consideration of the objections."
The word Shall means Must not May or Maybe but Must.
So because the licensing department refuse to set a further date they are in breach of the act. Also despite asking for the information to enable me to work out the true costs for the licensing function, no usable information has been received. Furthermore it seems that the objections sent into the council were dismissed at a meeting between the Head of regulatory Function and the licensing officer without any elected member of the council present and with no minutes being taken. I believe that meetings to discuss matters like this should be open to the public but despite many people asking for details of the meeting none were informed of any such meeting.
I ask that the rises that were implemented on April 1st 2013 be suspended pending the outcome of this complaint.
Regards,


In response to my complaint regarding the date of implementation on 1st April 2013, the response is "there is no requirement for the new date to differ from the original date or for it to be later."

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Grandad,


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:44 pm 
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grandad wrote:
In response to my complaint regarding the date of implementation on 1st April 2013, the response is "there is no requirement for the new date to differ from the original date or for it to be later."

You are dealing with f***ing idiots, the Ombudsman is the only place to go.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:58 pm 
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once there is an objection the council must set a
date "within two months" to consider the objection.....

Ombudsman time as Sussex says and it's free:-)


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