Taxi Driver Online

Hello members, first post on the board. I have been considering fitting a cctv system into my cab, but there is rumour that were not allowed to do that as a glasgow operator ( black hack ). I've looked over my operators license and nothing says I can or can't, other than about needing permission for signage.

The amount of anti social behaviour and abuse, rife in the job now, along with vandalism, is now at endemic proportions.
I just can't afford to continue paying for damages to my cab, just because someone's had a bad night . I believe other cities in Scotland now have cctv, like Edinburgh and Dundee, and is a proven tool to cut down on the negative behaviour seen in cabs. Also good for passenger and driver protection.

The cctv I'm looking at is a pro set up by a company called cygnus and would comply with all the data privacy laws laud down by ico.
What is the risk of doing this without permission from glasgow council ? It's for my own personal safety and protection of my cab. Would a lawyer be effective in challenging any opposition from glasgow council ?

The council said to someone else, that there was a review consultation happening at the next licensing meeting but they've been apparently doing this since 2009.

Am I within my rights, to protect myself at work with cctv ? All advice appreciated.

Robert.....

It says nothing in my conditions either. I fitted a cheap cam, records video and sound.
Even having a couple of "CCTV in Operation" stickers can be a deterrent, but if a customer has an issue you may be asked for footage, so having just stickers could be leading people into a false sense of security. Stick in a cam + stickers.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/VISION-IN-CAR-ACCIDENT-CAMERA-Recorder/dp/B0085ZD17G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367239471&sr=8-1&keywords=in+car+cctv
This is what I use.
Yes, I am sure a good lawyer could argue the case. I see it this way, If you were to try and submit video or sound captured in your cab in a court of law for some reason you persue they could tell you no. Police may say no to using it as evidence.....
Then on the other side of the coin is your cam capturing footage of a mugging, murder, rape etc, I'm bloody well sure the cops would be all over you to get the images.
Your insurance company would most certainly view it to accertain blame in an accident, a very helpful tool for them.
I would like to think we all have rights to protect our businesses, shops, busses etc have it, why not you.
I hope my comments help.

This is the full page from Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_sab ... car%20cctv

Cheers mate. Very helpful. I cant see how the police would have a problem with the evidence. Its the police themselves ( Police Scotland ) that have endorsed Taxi CCTV systems in Edinburgh and Dundee, and as we speak, as far as im aware, i hear Aberdeen is also making it available. Are Glasgow folk too special to be on taxi cctv cams ?

Not long ago, kenny macaskill, set out a best practice guide, in which he advised all councils to encourage and look sympathetically to operators wanting to install cctv in cabs. More to the point, he told them, that this should be left to the drivers and operators themselves to decide. In truth, i think the press would have a field day, if they forced an operator to un-install an already fitted system, especially when gcc themselves have cctv plastered all over the place, `for their safety`. Hypocrites.

Macaskills best practice guide.

Security
5.6. Licensing authorities should actively promote and facilitate good links between
the taxi and private hire car trades and the local police force, including active
participation in any crime reduction initiatives.

5.7. The owners and drivers of vehicles will often want to install security measures to
protect the driver. Local licensing authorities may consider that this is a matter best
left to the judgement of the owners and drivers themselves. However, it is
recommended practice for licensing authorities to consider sympathetically, or
indeed actively encourage, their installation. Security measures could include a
screen between driver and passengers or CCTV.

5.8. Installation of CCTV in taxis and private hire cars may offer a degree of security
in terms of safety of both passengers and drivers alike. It could also prove a useful
tool in corroboration in cases of fare disputes, vandalism and other anti-social or
criminal behaviour committed within the vehicle. Authorities in assessing the
suitability of CCTV equipment must be aware of any responsibilities for themselves 11
and/or the drivers and operators of the CCTV systems under the Data Protection Act
1998. The Information Commissioner‟s Office is a helpful source of information and
advice. Where CCTV systems are installed in taxis and private hire cars, operators
should ensure that they comply with the Information Commissioner‟s Office CCTV
code of practice. Images recorded on such systems are personal data and their
processing is subject to the provisions of the Data Protection Act 1998.

First thing you need to do is ask your council.

If they don't allow then ask why.

If they do then get a copy of the approved criteria.

CCTV saves lives and save drivers livelihoods.

IMO only mugs are opposed to it.

_________________
IDFIMH

Hello Sussex,

This saga has been going on since 2009. The council are dragging their heals. Perhaps its because they dont have to worry about security, having cars laid on for them to get to and fro, and also , the fact they have cctv all over their buildings. The union have given them all they need in relation to paperwork, and so forth. Any other member of society, has the right to be protected at work, why not us ? The original excuse was data protection and privacy. All these avenues are covered, as the system is a professional installation by cygcam, and we also have a data controller. No reasons, maybe they are trying to find away to make a profit from our misery first.

There is one glasgow cab, that has installed it, quite frankly, im going to be second. They cant give us a `reason` because there isnt one. No conditions that oppose cctv, however, they have a clause, which states, you cant put up signage and `other things` which apparently include cctv.

The cab that has installed it now, is waiting for gcc to pull him and request or force, the cctv to be un installed. If that happens, the media are waiting, and this story will hit the press. Just today, gcc announced a multi milllion pound cctv programme, to combat shop lifting and anti social behaviour around the city. So, do cabbies not get these problems ?

If a war is what they want, that is what there going to get.

would be interested in hearing what problems you've encountered with the council Robert,


we've been looking at CCTV in Glasgow from the PH side of things and are running into similar problems to those that you've mentioned,


please drop me a mail to admin@thephda.co.uk if your willing to chat further about this


cheers

Foxtrot

I must be a mug then because I absolutely hate CCTV wherever it is. It lulls people into a false sense of security. In practice it means you can sit in the comfort of your own home and watch yourself being beaten senseless by someone who can't be identified because the images aren't good enough.

regarding sound recording, I think you'll find this has already been tried and tested in the courts in a case involving southampton. It was deemed a breach of privacy to have sound recording.

Good luck anyway, I hope you win in your battle with the council and that you feel more secure with CCTV.

The case in Southampton related to non stop 24 hour audio recording. Not audio recording per say via a panic button. However, audio if need be, can be disabled on any professional system, made for taxis and ph.

Anything that deters poeple from kicking lumps out of your cabs, can only be a good thing. The systems in use today,you don't have access to, as their encrypted and can only be authorised by police or council, and then ONLY be extracted by the registered data controller. The unit I looked at had night vision and top notch resolution.

If your Council has not committed to CCTV, be sure they will soon. Try advising them what you intend buying and request opinion. When you buy make sure you register yourself as your own Data Controller...it costs £35 a year from ICO and gives you some insulation from the red tape bureaucracy associated to optaining images...the most often quoted if you can find someone is "no images" or interpreted-"you are a Taxi driver, we canna be asked to even bother looking"

If your Council has not committed to CCTV, be sure they will soon. Try advising them what you intend buying and request opinion. When you buy make sure you register yourself as your own Data Controller...it costs £35 a year from ICO and gives you some insulation from the red tape bureaucracy associated to optaining images...the most often quoted if you can find someone is "no images" or interpreted-"you are a Taxi driver, we canna be asked to even bother looking"

There's been a bit of talk in my area of fitting CCTV, but there's so little trouble in the cars round here it wouldn't be worth the expense.

I think in the 10 years or so my wife and I have been doing the job, there's probably only been about 6 instances where a passenger has beocme that aggressive. I can understand cabbies in big town wanting some sort of protection, but ask yourself, does CCTV STOP the violence? Answer NO, but it might help catch whoever done it.

I have very strong anti-CCTV views, I hate being wathed everywhere I go! That's why I love beign abroad, there's no bugger watching my every move! Not that I've got anything to hide or anything to worry about.

Is there anything in your existing rules and regulations that say you can't have it?

If not, then you can.

_________________
IDFIMH

That case related to a council saying you must have 24/7 audio.

However if your data controller says he thinks you should have 24/7 audio, and you agree, then it is 100% legal.

_________________
IDFIMH

Nothing at all, but the trade want the rules changed, to say we CAN have it. Because if we dont, then our cabs will be failing inspections left right and centre, due to `modifying ` the vehicle.

We would like GCC to recognise, we have a problem, and we need their blessings in cctv installations, for the good of the taxi trade.

Nobody likes being watched. I agree. However, we must look also, at the bigger picture, and where the taxi trade fit, into society. We are out working unsocial, anti social hours, the publics purse has shrunk, more and more youngsters , are high on drink or other illegal substances. In general, cabbies have been abused for time immemorial, but now, its a hell of a lot worse.

We are stuck in the middle, we cant say anything to customers even when they are clearly wrong. This is why, one of the most effective methods for us guys is cctv. It sends the message, and quite effectively, YOUR BEING WATCHED. Prevention is better than cure, however, if the need arises for the minority of idiots to be brought to book, then you know, at least the evidence is there.

All we would like is to be given the choice, of whether we want it or not, also called an option.