Taxi Driver Online

The legislation is here ;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006 ... tents/made

It makes no reference to a definition of 'smoking' or smoke, just what an enclosed premises is and who is responsible for enforcement.

I've searched for 'vapour' and the only results refer to petrol fumes.

I can't find any definition of what smoking is in the legislation, there's no mention of it having to be a tobacco cigarette or anything that emits smoke/vapour etc. It's just a ban on'smoking' in public enclosed spaces. Someone else may have more luck searching here - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/

I have heard murmurings that Nicotine is a Tobacco product, that there is combustion at the filament to create the vapour and that a vapour of spent nicotine is put into the atmosphere. I consider this rubbish, but have asked clarification of the legislation refereed. Very much aware that if LO deem it banned in the Taxi then if breached a costly representation and maybe magistrates court costs may deter all but the most determined....exactly as planned by the LO?

I don't know much about these products but the ones that I have seen in use have been made to look like a cigarette. Maybe it is because of the similarity in appearance that LOs don't want them used in the vehicle. Why do they have to be made to look like a fag? it's like vegeburgers and vegges sausages. Why do vegetarians want their food to look like meat? If they want to eat vegetables then fair enough but if they want a sausage then they should not be vegetarians.

_________________
Grandad,

I agree, they are spouting this line to make their jobs easier.

Mine looks nothing like a cigarette, although the first one did.

_________________

http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

Nicotine is a chemical and can be extracted from various sources, not just tobacco.
Smoke is a by-product of combustion (burning). No combustion takes place in an ecig only the release of a vapour which, if left to it's own devices, will condense back into it's previous liquid state.

Glad all those chemistry lessons weren't wasted.

_________________

http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

I've found a couple of references in the legislation that might be of interest ;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2005/ ... sion/2/1/4

Scottish law but gives a meaning of smoke - 'Subsection (1) provides the meaning of “smoke” which in the context of Part 1 of the Act means to smoke tobacco or any other substance or mixture which can be smoked. This subsection further clarifies that a person is to be taken as smoking if the person holds or is otherwise in possession or control of lit tobacco or any other lit substance or mixture which can be smoked.' - I suppose could include e-cigs as the vapour is a substance which is smoked?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/28/section/1

Which says - (a)“smoking” refers to smoking tobacco or anything which contains tobacco, or smoking any other substance, and .
(b)smoking includes being in possession of lit tobacco or of anything lit which contains tobacco, or being in possession of any other lit substance in a form in which it could be smoked. .

So the e-cigs debate boils down to whether or not they contain a substance that can be smoked regardless of whether they contain tobacco or not, and whether the vapour is a 'lit substance'. Is using an e-cig smoking or inhaling ? Likewise is using an ordinary cigarette inhaling also ? Does 'smoking' and 'inhaling' in this context mean the same thing ?

Smoke, is a substance you can see both when lit inhaled or exhaled, the E cigs cannot be lit, and you cannot see anything other than water vapour, and are more or less, in layman's terms like boiling a kettle, the nicotine in each draw is one eighth of that of a normal ciggy draw, but without the other cr@p contained in a ciggy

Vapour is not smoke.

_________________

http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

I'm not saying vapour isn't smoke but trying to define what 'smoking' is as the law bans smoking in enclosed spaces - it doesn't ban smoke !

The only legislation I've found (as already posted) of which there's probably more says smoking is being in possesion of lit tobacco (it doesn't say it has to be inhaled, just lit !) or any other lit substance which can be smoked.

There's ambiguity in the laws mentioned and also lack of definition of smoke and lit. Does 'lit' have to involve flame or smouldering, by using a hot coil to create vapour could that be considered lit ?

As mentioned in another forum whilst looking for relevant law at the end of the day it would be for a case to go to court and a ruling given on whether e-cigs are part of the no smoking legislation or not.

I find it strange that smoking wouldn't in some way involve smoke.
Egics produce no smoke.

In possesion of lit tobacco? I think most people would accept this as being a tobacco product which is burning.
Ecigs do not contain tobacco products and nothing is burned.

Now I have no doubt that some small minded people could conclude that ecigs are included in the ban. Most would think they are just being small minded and unreasonable.

_________________

http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

The Private Hire and Taxi Monthly team are quite forward in their web offer of a starter kit for e-ciggs;

"Who says I cannot smoke in my taxi-I can now!! with the E cigarette used by the team at PHTM"

http://www.phtm.co.uk/e-cigarettes

If these guys say its OK-then its very strong indication that its perfectly legal to smoke these e ciggs in your Taxi?

There's nothing they can do, it's not lit, it's not emitting any smoke, it's not emitting any fumes so folk aren't inhaling passive smoke.

Then the claim by the PHTM is wrong. It clearly states that by using the e-cig you CAN SMOKE.

_________________
Grandad,