Taxi Driver Online

Driver in court over woman and child using same belt


A TAXI driver could be punished by the courts over an incident involving a two-year-old child sitting on a woman's knee in the back of his car.

David Whyte was stopped by a police officer who saw the child being restrained by the woman's seat belt while both were in the back of his taxi.

The incident was deemed by the police to carry the risk of potentially causing danger to those in the vehicle or others.

Whyte, 52, of Western Outway, Grimsby, found himself facing a court hearing as a result of the incident.

He denied a charge that the way a passenger was carried in his taxi caused danger, or was likely to do so.

The case was listed for trial at Grimsby Magistrates' Court – but there were immediately problems on how to interpret regulations and exemptions affecting taxi drivers.

Manisha Singh, prosecuting, said a police officer spotted a woman in the back of Whyte's taxi in Welholme Road, Grimsby, on July 28.

She had a two-year-old child on her lap and both were being restrained by the woman's seat belt, which was "wrapped round" them both.

"By carrying the child in that manner, it was very dangerous and likely to cause a serious injury," claimed Miss Singh.

Defence solicitor Roy Foreman said Whyte's taxi was licensed to carry six passengers. There were four adults and the two-year-old child.

The taxi did not carry specialist child restraints for a youngster of that age – and there was an exemption in the regulations for taxi drivers for children under the age of three in such situations.

The regulations stated that, if there were no such child restraints, a taxi MAY carry a young child unrestrained by a seat belt – but did not HAVE to do so.

Mr Foreman said he believed that a taxi driver would not be committing an offence in such circumstances.

He added that, by the same token, it would not be an offence if the child was restrained by a seat belt while on the lap of a parent or other adult.

District judge Daniel Curtis said the regulations and exemptions for taxi drivers were not clear in law and he wanted to carry out more research into the matter.

But he said it seemed to him that having a child sharing an adult's seat belt could be seen as "a dangerous thing to do".

He added: "If the child came out of that seat belt, it could cause danger to someone else."

The case was adjourned until Friday so the prosecution can also consider whether the matter is in the public interest to pursue.


Read more: http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/Taxi-dri ... z2VzslXAVx

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

And the rules are:

Children must normally use the correct car seat until they reach 135 centimetres tall or age 12, but there are exceptions. The type of car seat your child needs depends on their weight.

Never carry a child on your lap or use a single seat belt for 2 passengers, whatever their age.

Only EU-approved baby seats, child car seats or booster cushions can be used in the UK. These have a label showing a capital ‘E’ in a circle. Second hand child seats or boosters must still meet current safety standards - check them thoroughly before accepting and make sure they haven’t been involved in a crash.
Child car seat types
Type of seat Weight range
Rear-facing baby seats Babies up to 13kg
Forward or rear-facing baby seats Children from 9 to 18kg
Forward-facing child car seats (booster seats) Children from 15 to 25kg
Booster cushions Children over 22kg

Some seats are adjustable and can be used as your child grows - check the seat label.
Using your child’s car seat in the front seat

You can use your child’s car seat in the front seat of a vehicle, if it fits. This includes 2-seater cars or convertibles with the top down.

You must deactivate any frontal airbags before fitting a rear-facing baby seat.
Side-facing seats

Child car seats must not be used in side-facing seats.
Vehicles without seat belts

If your vehicle doesn’t have seat belts, a child over 3 can travel in the back seat without their car seat.

Children under 3 must not travel in cars, vans or goods vehicles without a seat belt or their car seat.
Cars with integral child-sized seats

Some cars have their own (integral) child-sized seats that are only suitable for children. If the seat is approved for use instead of a child’s car seat, it will have a label with an ‘E’ in a circle. The label will also show the weight of the child that it’s approved for - usually above 15 kilograms.

If the child-sized seat isn’t approved, your child will need to use their car seat. If their car seat doesn’t fit, your child can’t use the vehicle’s integral child-sized seat.
Car seats in a seat with only a lap belt

If a seat only has a lap belt, you’ll still need to fit your child’s car seat.

Most seats can only be used with a belt that has a diagonal strap as well, so in this case you’ll need to get a diagonal belt fitted.

When a child can travel without a car seat

There are a few situations when a child can travel without a car seat if one isn’t available.
Taxis and private hire vehicles (minicabs)

In a licensed taxi or licensed private hire vehicle (minicab), children aged:

under 3 can travel without a child’s car seat or seat belt, but only on the back seat
3 years or older can travel without a child’s car seat but they must wear an adult seat belt

Unexpected but necessary journeys over a short distance

If the correct child seat isn’t available, a child over 3 years old can use the adult belt for an unexpected but necessary journey over a short distance. This doesn’t apply to a regular school run or planned journey.

You must not take children under 3 in a vehicle without a seat belt or the correct child car seat (except in the back seat of a taxi or minicab).
No room for a 3rd child seat in the back

If there’s no room for a 3rd child seat in the back seat a 3rd child under the age of 3 can’t travel unless they are in the front seat with the correct child seat.

Children over 3 years can either use the front seat with the correct child seat or sit in the back using an adult belt.


Not rocket science is it..

So an experienced practising lawyer, who is now a DJ, doesn't have a clue about the law, so how on earth can an average driver be certain about it?

If this goes ahead, and that's a big if, and the driver is found guilty, and that's a big and, I hope the driver gets an absolute discharge with no costs.

IMO this prosecution shouldn't have happened.

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IDFIMH

I always tell the adult to put their seat belt on, and to hold the child on their lap, the other side of the belt.

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if you cannot be yourself, then who can you be.

many passengers prefer to put the child in a belt but with the diagonal behind i.e. only the lap part fitted but it is surprising how many give in to the screams of the child and let them travel loose

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lack of modern legislation is the iceberg sinking the titanic of the transport sector

I do that, put the waist strap around the toddler and then put the diagonal part behind the head rest, if you don't the wee mites neck gets rubbed by the belt.

You cant realistically carry a Childs seat as the modern ones are about the size of a rally seat and would fill up the boot space when not in use, even a booster seat takes up valuable luggage space.

http://www.yummykids.co.uk/Folding_Booster_Seat_by_Goldbug/p522867_6029522.aspx

Maybe that's the answer..

A very important one to get right!


I was told some years ago NOT to have the child in any way trapped between the adult and the belt!

When the belt is activated i.e a smash, the adult naturally still continues to travel forward momentum wise! If you have a small baby/toddler between the adult and the belt.............then the little one could be crushed between the adult continuing forward, and the belt snapping shut. Hence the reason I always insist the child is held - not belted in, in any way. The adult is the one that must be belted in - the options being................do it, or out.

Any thoughts on this one would be welcomed, as it is no pi$$ing contest on this one from me.

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if you cannot be yourself, then who can you be.

This always seems to be a troublesome question,what to do with the little one.I was unsure what to do the other day when a lady asked if I could take 3 adults and 3 kids plus a baby in a pushchair(I have 6 seater eurocab).I came down on the side of caution and said I'd better not!.

you were prudent to do so, a babies still a passenger and counts towards your licensed seating total.

I had a similar one the other week,7 adults + it is only a baby. I explained that in the event of an accident - they would count 8 people .......the baby is a oerson. They then went to another driver who was going to take them, until I got out along with another driver to explain why he should not, it was like talking to a plank of wood. Thankfully the driver backing me up was Asian, I would say that was why the other Asian driver backed down. If we had not been there he would have allowed more into his cab than the plate stated.

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if you cannot be yourself, then who can you be.

Call for law change to protect children in cars



A TAXI driver is calling for a change in the law to ensure safety for children.

David Whyte, of Grimsby, who has been a taxi driver for 25 years, faced a fine and points on his licence for carrying a child who was sharing a seat belt with their mother.

The charges against him have now been dropped after he highlighted an anomaly in the law.

On the one hand, North East Lincolnshire Council rules state all children must be strapped in with a seat belt restraint.

But police say children under the age of three years cannot use a standard seat belt, and must be restrained in proper child seats.

Taxi drivers, however, are exempt from having such measures in their vehicles, and regulations state that where they are not available, a taxi may carry a young child unrestrained by a seat belt – but did not have to do so.

The confusion arose when Mr Whyte picked up a fare in Welholme Road, Grimsby, on July 28 last year.

The family had a two-year-old child who sat on the mother's knee and both were restrained by the same seat belt.

Mr Whyte was stopped by a police officer who deemed it to carry the risk of causing danger to those in the vehicle and others.

In court, prosecutor Andrew Vaughan, asked for the case to be withdrawn.

He said: "It is a strange case."

District Judge Daniel Curtis, said: "It is. It seems to me if you comply with what the law says it is more dangerous than a child being restrained."

He added that Mr Whyte had been "doing his best" given the situation.

Later Mr Whyte said: "Most people would have accepted the £60 fine and the points on their licence, but I decided to challenge it because the law is not clear. It needs changing.

"We used to provide a bucket seat for very small children, but the council stopped us using those a few years ago."

He claimed some drivers were even refusing to carry small children because of the conflicting regulations, and added: "I could get nicked by a copper one day, but get let off by a different copper on another day.

"Personally I think all children should be strapped in. My grandchildren are always strapped in."

The taxi driver said he had swapped his six-seater Ford Galaxy for a Vauxhall Insignia to reduce the "stress" of taking large numbers of people.

What do you think?

How do you think children should travel in taxis?


Read more: http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/law-chan ... z2WYUM2vKF

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

The taxi driver said he had swapped his six-seater Ford Galaxy for a to reduce the "stress" of taking large numbers of people.

What do you think?

Glad he got off, but an insignia he should have been lock up under the mental health act

It's not an anomaly at all.

It's the police that don't understand the law that's the problem.

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IDFIMH