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 Post subject: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:48 am 
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Location: South Coast
Does anyone have any involvement in contracts with your local NHS Trust providing patient transport for the "walking wounded". The firm I drive for lost the contract to 2 local Trust's and the work stops after today. The mileage rate was £1.40 and hadn't increased for at least 3 years. An ambulance company called E-Zec has taken on the work.

The mileage rate was pretty poor but I would typically do about £300 of this work per week. In addition of course to normal cash work. There is a lot of worry as to what will fill the gap, if anything!

As I read the new eligibility rules for the ambulance transport I think a lot of patieints we transported will now longer qualify for free transport to the hozzy.

Anyone else had a similar scenario?

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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:45 am
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Location: Braintree, Essex.
2 Jobs wrote:
Does anyone have any involvement in contracts with your local NHS Trust providing patient transport for the "walking wounded". The firm I drive for lost the contract to 2 local Trust's and the work stops after today. The mileage rate was £1.40 and hadn't increased for at least 3 years. An ambulance company called E-Zec has taken on the work.

The mileage rate was pretty poor but I would typically do about £300 of this work per week. In addition of course to normal cash work. There is a lot of worry as to what will fill the gap, if anything!

As I read the new eligibility rules for the ambulance transport I think a lot of patieints we transported will now longer qualify for free transport to the hozzy.

Anyone else had a similar scenario?



I bet the local voluntary drivers are doing the work making more than you.

There's a guy round here who's driving about in a high spec Merc doing hospital work.


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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:49 am 
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What is the status of the new company? I it a registerd p/h or taxi firm? If not, you could probably bring a case under EU Competition laws. Look up the case I've mentioned on here before of Glockner. This was concerning a hospital in Germany who used to used a firm called Glockner to provide patient services; the local health authority decided to use spare capacity to do the work using their own fleet.

To cut a long story short, the health authority lost because what they were doing was anti-competitive. They used volunteer drivers. It was deemed that any business, regardless of status was being run for "economic activity" regardless of status.

This is the basis of the on-going saga elsewhere of the s19 and s22 community transport issue.

If you were employed by your company (as opposed to being self-employed or contracted to them) you would have a good case under TUPE. It does not apply to self-employed people.

As an aside, there was an item on BBC Kent this morning criticising NSL who have recently taken over patient contracts for Dartford NHS Trust. I bet they don't have a properly licenced vehicle on the fleet! By carrying people for hire and reward, even on an NHS contract, they should, according to the Rout-v-Swallow hotel case, be licenced as p/h or psv! They are being rewarded for carrying people for money, or in the case of Glockener, economic activity.


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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:59 am 
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Location: Twixt Heaven and Hell, but nearest Hell
the volunteers (if any) usually get about 40p per every round trip miles, BUT, they can be moving all day and with the chance to take ins/outs on trips already running

i know cos i did it for North Wales ambulance and Warwickshire too over many years, i had one plated car and one not plated, at best £700 a week want uncommon and that was 15 years ago with an ex-copper SGT driving the unplated car...

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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:01 am 
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roythebus wrote:
They are being rewarded for carrying people for money, or in the case of Glockener, economic activity.


the trouble with that is the RAC/AA figures for total running costs for a car are higher than volunteer rates, if theres no profit element HMRC arent interested and neither is anyone else

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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:43 am 
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Location: 1066 Country
Looks very much like a private hire service that isn't using private hire vehicles and licensed drivers.

Paying drivers minimum wage or similar says all one needs to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:03 pm 
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Location: Aberdeen
Soon to become state policy?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fo ... ce-2322499

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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:38 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
roythebus wrote:
They are being rewarded for carrying people for money, or in the case of Glockener, economic activity.


the trouble with that is the RAC/AA figures for total running costs for a car are higher than volunteer rates, if theres no profit element HMRC arent interested and neither is anyone else


http://www.theaa.com/resources/Documents/pdf/motoring-advice/running-costs/diesel2013.pdf

http://www.theaa.com/resources/Documents/pdf/motoring-advice/running-costs/petrol2013.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:41 pm 
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gusmac wrote:


Human Rights will scupper that I bet, besides it'll take a shit load of money to pay for a thousands of over seers to keep an eye on them...and thats never gonna happen either.


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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:07 pm 
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Location: South Coast
The company that is taking over is a private ambulance company. We are all self employed but on the E Zec website a couple of months ago they were advertising for employed ambulance drivers paying £8.92 to work in our area. www.e-zec.co.uk

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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:47 pm 
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Location: Wirral
bloodnock wrote:
gusmac wrote:


Human Rights will scupper that I bet, besides it'll take a shit load of money to pay for a thousands of over seers to keep an eye on them...and thats never gonna happen either.


It may have done if they weren't trying to get out of that bit as well. Until taxi/ph drivers are prepared to work for peanuts they are going to lose work to cheaper providers, especially with costs being cut wherever possible

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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:29 am 
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roythebus wrote:
What is the status of the new company? I it a registerd p/h or taxi firm? If not, you could probably bring a case under EU Competition laws. Look up the case I've mentioned on here before of Glockner. This was concerning a hospital in Germany who used to used a firm called Glockner to provide patient services; the local health authority decided to use spare capacity to do the work using their own fleet.

To cut a long story short, the health authority lost because what they were doing was anti-competitive. They used volunteer drivers. It was deemed that any business, regardless of status was being run for "economic activity" regardless of status.

This is the basis of the on-going saga elsewhere of the s19 and s22 community transport issue.

If you were employed by your company (as opposed to being self-employed or contracted to them) you would have a good case under TUPE. It does not apply to self-employed people.

As an aside, there was an item on BBC Kent this morning criticising NSL who have recently taken over patient contracts for Dartford NHS Trust. I bet they don't have a properly licenced vehicle on the fleet! By carrying people for hire and reward, even on an NHS contract, they should, according to the Rout-v-Swallow hotel case, be licenced as p/h or psv! They are being rewarded for carrying people for money, or in the case of Glockener, economic activity.


Their SIC Code states they are are :

"Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC):
49390 - Other passenger land transport"

You can check them out here..
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:37 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:17 pm
Posts: 2712
It means they are a private limited company (you can't buy their shares on the stock market) and they are engaged in land transport. Therefore they are clearly operating for economic activity (according to the Glockner case) and should be licenced as psv/ph/taxi except for their ambulance fleet.

As you are self-employed, you don't have any TUPE rights.

The volunteer sector is being looked at by the EU as part of their s19/s22/volunteer transport sector. an announcement is expected soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:57 pm
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Location: South Coast
E-Zec vehicles now in evidence. All 13 and 63 plate. Full blown ambulances plus Vito's and Experts liveried as ambulances.

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 Post subject: Re: Hospital Contracts
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:25 pm 
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2 Jobs wrote:
E-Zec vehicles now in evidence. All 13 and 63 plate. Full blown ambulances plus Vito's and Experts liveried as ambulances.


How does it pay them...New cars to pay for and drivers as well. You kind off smell a rat at times but you just don't know from where the smell comes or even who the rats are.


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