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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:38 pm 
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grandad wrote:
TUPE does not apply to:

transfers by share take-over because, when a company's shares are sold to new shareholders, there is no transfer of the business: the same company continues to be the employer
transfer of assets only (eg the sale of equipment alone wouldn't be covered but the sale of a going concern including equipment would be covered)
transfer of a contract to provide goods or services where this doesn't involve the transfer of a business or part of a business
transfers of undertakings situated outside the UK.
Could this be a sticking point?

You are not transferring anything.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:37 am 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
TUPE does not apply to:

transfers by share take-over because, when a company's shares are sold to new shareholders, there is no transfer of the business: the same company continues to be the employer
transfer of assets only (eg the sale of equipment alone wouldn't be covered but the sale of a going concern including equipment would be covered)
transfer of a contract to provide goods or services where this doesn't involve the transfer of a business or part of a business
transfers of undertakings situated outside the UK.
Could this be a sticking point?

You are not transferring anything.

Just checking.
I have a customer this morning who is a partner in an employment law firm. Hopefully she will be able to put my mind at ease.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:55 am 
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grandad wrote:
I have a customer this morning who is a partner in an employment law firm. Hopefully she will be able to put my mind at ease.

She thinks that the employees wont be able to claim for 2 reasons. 1. Length of service - they have not been employed long enough to claim unfair dismissal. and 2. Short term contract exemption.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:14 am 
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grandad wrote:
She thinks that the employees wont be able to claim for 2 reasons. 1. Length of service - they have not been employed long enough to claim unfair dismissal. and 2. Short term contract exemption.

But do the other firm know that. :-$

Or maybe they do now. :roll: :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:01 am 
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"The Devil's in the detail"


as per normal

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Length of service doesn't come into it when TUPE is involved. If the contract was for say a year and it was terminated before that and re-tendered as the same service, then TUPE does apply. If your employees are aware it's for a year, then your contract with them should reflect that, but that is only if the service isn't re-tendered at the end of the contract period.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:46 pm 
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roythebus wrote:
Length of service doesn't come into it when TUPE is involved. If the contract was for say a year and it was terminated before that and re-tendered as the same service, then TUPE does apply. If your employees are aware it's for a year, then your contract with them should reflect that, but that is only if the service isn't re-tendered at the end of the contract period.


But what happens when its a fixed term contract ending in a July and the tenders go out in August for a September start, escorts wouldnt be needed in the gap, are they laid off anyway, I dont think TUPE would stand up

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:28 pm 
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roythebus wrote:
Length of service doesn't come into it when TUPE is involved. If the contract was for say a year and it was terminated before that and re-tendered as the same service, then TUPE does apply. If your employees are aware it's for a year, then your contract with them should reflect that, but that is only if the service isn't re-tendered at the end of the contract period.

You are correct in that length of service doesn't matter for TUPE but what it means in reality is that the new company can say that they are taking the employees on as per TUPE and then dismiss them the day after because the total employment time is less than required to claim unfair dismissal.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:28 pm 
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Grandad, turn it around, would you take on some other firms drivers and escorts for a newly won contract?...


What could happen if the TUPE law supported the situation is every firm would have a contracts company (ltd) which shutdown after each contract, all legal and above board

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:53 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
Grandad, turn it around, would you take on some other firms drivers and escorts for a newly won contract?...



If it was mentioned on the tender, I would have the choice of weather I tendered or not. I suspect that if it was mentioned on this particular tender, the other company would not have submitted a tender.
I think the Council are acting in an unfair way by seeking legal advice and then passing this advice to the new company. That would seem to be favouring one company over another and is possibly illegal.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:42 pm 
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grandad wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
Grandad, turn it around, would you take on some other firms drivers and escorts for a newly won contract?...



If it was mentioned on the tender, I would have the choice of weather I tendered or not. I suspect that if it was mentioned on this particular tender, the other company would not have submitted a tender.
I think the Council are acting in an unfair way by seeking legal advice and then passing this advice to the new company. That would seem to be favouring one company over another and is possibly illegal.


Staffordshire include it on all tenders already, bids are rock bottom so its obviously not a worry...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:16 pm 
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I have just been informed which company has been awarded the contract. It is a local company to me who do not (as yet) have any employees. I also know for sure that they have drivers and escorts that are paid £3.00 cash in hand whilst claiming benefits because I have had one of them ask me if I can offer him the same deal in the past. This could be interesting.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:09 pm 
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grandad wrote:
I have just been informed which company has been awarded the contract. It is a local company to me who do not (as yet) have any employees. I also know for sure that they have drivers and escorts that are paid £3.00 cash in hand whilst claiming benefits because I have had one of them ask me if I can offer him the same deal in the past. This could be interesting.


so your drivers/escorts could be on for a move AND a pay rise then?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:27 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
grandad wrote:
I have just been informed which company has been awarded the contract. It is a local company to me who do not (as yet) have any employees. I also know for sure that they have drivers and escorts that are paid £3.00 cash in hand whilst claiming benefits because I have had one of them ask me if I can offer him the same deal in the past. This could be interesting.


so your drivers/escorts could be on for a move AND a pay rise then?

Well they could be on for a move, I doubt that they will get a payrise.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:07 pm 
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grandad wrote:
I have just been informed which company has been awarded the contract. It is a local company to me who do not (as yet) have any employees. I also know for sure that they have drivers and escorts that are paid £3.00 cash in hand whilst claiming benefits because I have had one of them ask me if I can offer him the same deal in the past. This could be interesting.

Put TUPE to one side for a moment, I would advise the low pay unit to pay said firm a visit.

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