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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:01 am 
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While Saddam did have his faults he knew how to tame the Islamists. The west created this monster, now we can't tame it.


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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:31 am 
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Skull wrote:
Okay, I want CC and Gusmac to explain to me exactly what ISIS believe they are fighting for and what they are trying to achieve?


Oh and please spare me the history lesson, I know how we got in this position and what a bunch of cu**s are running this country and probably better than most. :evil:


Isis: who are they and can they be stopped?


Part terrorist group and part Islamist state, Isis seeks to establish a caliphate in Syria and Iraq


The Isis advance across northern Iraq seems to have taken the world by surprise, but it's a crisis that has been brewing for several years. Here's how the group grew out of the chaos and sectarian hatred unleashed at the end of the Iraq war.

What is the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria?

The West considers Isis to be an international terrorist organisation. It operates in Iraq and Syria with the aim of creating an Islamic state across the borders of the two countries and beyond. Initially called Al-Qaeda in Iraq, it became the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria last year. It has played a prominent role in Syria's civil war with the chaos enabling it to quickly develop a reputation as one of the most extreme groups operating in the region, reports the New York Times.

However, its insistence on strict Sharia law and its focus on establishing a state rather than toppling President Bashar al-Assad have alienated the group from the larger rebel movement. Its influence was curtailed this year when opposition groups ousted it from Idlib and Aleppo, two areas where it had been most active. It still controls the Syrian city of Raqqa and now appears to be consolidating its power base in Iraq.

Reports from cities where Isis has taken control are bleak, with public executions, beheadings, kidnap, amputations, torture and beatings among tactics used to maintain control. Isis has long targeted journalists and activists, and has been known to use suicide attacks and land mines against its opposition.

A group or a geographical state?

After the fall of Mosul, some terrorism experts are suggesting that the militant group is coming close to becoming the Islamic State implied by its name. The Washington Post says Isis "effectively governs a nation-size tract of territory that stretches from the eastern edge of the Syrian city of Aleppo to Fallujah in western Iraq – and now also includes the northern Iraqi city of Mosul". The group views itself as its own state with administrative buildings, courts, street signs and even its own newspaper. Douglas Ollivant, of the New America Foundation, who advised the Obama and Bush administrations on Iraq, says it has "all the trappings of a state, just not an internationally recognised one".

Is Isis part of al-Qaeda?

Isis began as an al-Qaeda offshoot but was officially rejected by al-Qaeda earlier this year. Al-Qaeda has reportedly complained that Isis is too brutal and that its focus on establishing an Islamic state has distracted from the push in Syria to topple President Assad. The rejection means al-Qaeda's representation in Iraq is now limited, while Isis is posing a significant challenge to Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s control over the country.

Who leads Isis?

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, head of Isis, is now deemed one of the most powerful jihadi leaders in the world. He took over as leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq in 2010 after its former leaders were killed in an attack by US and Iraqi troops, reports The Independent. Following the fate of his predecessors, he reportedly insists on extreme secrecy, sometimes wearing a mask as disguise. Baghdadi, also known as Abu Dua, is believed to be in his early 40s, with degrees in Islamic Studies, including poetry, history and genealogy. Born in Samarra, a largely Sunni city north of Baghdad, he was later held prisoner by the Americans in Bocca Camp in southern Iraq between 2005 and 2009. The group's leadership is almost exclusively made up of Iraqis, but it has gained thousands of volunteers from across the Middle East and hundreds from the West. Iraqi officials believe there are between 6,000 and 10,000 Isis militants in the country.

How is Isis funded?

Isis has made money through oil smuggling in Syria, racketeering and kidnappings, as well as donations from private jihadi networks in the Gulf, says the Financial Times. The militants have seized oilfields in Syria’s Deir Ezzor province, made alliances with tribes to extract oil and were believed to be extorting taxes of up to $8m a month from businesses in Mosul before its takeover. Since seizing Mosul last week, Isis has been able to loot hundreds of millions of dollars from the city's banks, making it the richest terrorist group in the world. The FT says the group has issued annual reports since 2012 detailing its numerical "successes", including bombings, assassinations and new recruits, with the apparent aim of demonstrating its record to potential donors. The group claimed nearly 10,000 operations in Iraq in 2013 alone, with 1,000 assassinations and 4,000 improvised explosive devices planted.

Can Isis be stopped?

Experts believe that without intervention Isis will head south toward Iraq's capital city Baghdad. Prime Minister Maliki has vowed to fight back by reorganising military forces, punishing any troops who try to flee and arming civilians. It has also turned to the US, asking for missiles and artillery but not for a return of US troops. However, one former senior US commander told the Washington Post: "When a force like that gets momentum and the security forces start to crumble, it becomes difficult to stop." ·
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Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/isi ... z3FcuyBpGY

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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:57 am 
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ISIS created by Blair and Bush now needs stopping and it wont be done without ground forces ie Brit and US troops no matter how much they prevaricate its inevitable !

Personally avoiding the Tube in london these nutters are i reckon preparing another 7/7 #-o

Then theres EBOLA

let the good times roll :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin:

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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:11 am 
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We will conquer Rome

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07 ... 50646.html

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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:14 am 
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Skull wrote:


Deary me Gusmac, it looks like I've been right all along... #-o

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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:43 am 
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Ebola will stop them first :D

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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:16 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Ebola will stop them first :D


Or the shits


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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:37 pm 
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gusmac wrote:

No toys being thrown here Skull. I'm not the one being abusive to those who don't want to play your silly game :-"


Once again, WRONG!!!

The fact that you continually reduce reasoned argument to personality is the most abhorrent abuse.

And it now seems second nature to you. And it appears that you do this because you can not understand the argument and therefore feel inadequate to respond on any reasonable intellectual level.

But you're not alone. Those who have kept off this forum just as long as I did, only to reappear to reinvigorate their only raison d'être in life, to pronounce their childish hatred of me, are a clear level below you, Gusmac.

All it would take for this forum to effectively become redundant would be for cabbies, particularly here in Edinburgh, to start thinking of others and not just their own narrow interests, and stop being patsie for the council.

Slim chance or what?

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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:44 pm 
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Jasbar wrote:
gusmac wrote:

No toys being thrown here Skull. I'm not the one being abusive to those who don't want to play your silly game :-"


Once again, WRONG!!!

The fact that you continually reduce reasoned argument to personality is the most abhorrent abuse.

And it now seems second nature to you. And it appears that you do this because you can not understand the argument and therefore feel inadequate to respond on any reasonable intellectual level.

But you're not alone. Those who have kept off this forum just as long as I did, only to reappear to reinvigorate their only raison d'être in life, to pronounce their hatred of me, are a clear level below you, Gusmac.

All it would take for this forum to effectively become redundant would be for cabbies, particularly here in Edinburgh, to start thinking of others and not just their own narrow interests, and stop being patsie for the council.

Slim chance or what?


Jasbar............you make about as much sense as you normally do. :-"

The rich and powerful created the current mess in the middle east. They did it to increase their already obscene wealth and to extend their power and influence.
They will deal with it in whatever way they feel fit, probably involving the deaths of countless thousands of Arabs and Westerners alike.
They will create the next crisis as well, and for the same reasons. Your opinion or mine, skull's or anyone else's are worth nothing to them. They don't care what any of us think, only that we carry on playing their game. The same game that has been going on for centuries.

I don't sup with the Devil, even with a long spoon. I certainly won't debate the cutlery and place settings with skull or anyone else. It's a futile exercise.

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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:47 pm 
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gusmac wrote:

Jasbar............you make about as much sense as you normally do. :-"

The rich and powerful created the current mess in the middle east. They did it to increase their already obscene wealth and to extend their power and influence.
They will deal with it in whatever way they feel fit, probably involving the deaths of countless thousands of Arabs and Westerners alike.
They will create the next crisis as well, and for the same reasons. Your opinion or mine, skull's or anyone else's are worth nothing to them. They don't care what any of us think, only that we carry on playing their game. The same game that has been going on for centuries.

I don't sup with the Devil, even with a long spoon. I certainly won't debate the cutlery and place settings with skull or anyone else. It's a futile exercise.


=D> =D> =D>

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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:17 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
gusmac wrote:

Jasbar............you make about as much sense as you normally do. :-"

The rich and powerful created the current mess in the middle east. They did it to increase their already obscene wealth and to extend their power and influence.
They will deal with it in whatever way they feel fit, probably involving the deaths of countless thousands of Arabs and Westerners alike.
They will create the next crisis as well, and for the same reasons. Your opinion or mine, skull's or anyone else's are worth nothing to them. They don't care what any of us think, only that we carry on playing their game. The same game that has been going on for centuries.

I don't sup with the Devil, even with a long spoon. I certainly won't debate the cutlery and place settings with skull or anyone else. It's a futile exercise.


=D> =D> =D>


And once again, no one disagrees on how the west came to be in this position with ISIS, so whats the point in repeating how we got here? #-o How does this justify the action they are taking raping and killing their way to an Islamic State and what has to be done to stop the threat spreading? :?

This is just a meme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ it has little to do with the topic of this thread.

Honestly CC, you've got me wondering what the fu*k is going on in your head or what it is you can't understand about the subject at hand. :?

You nor Gusmac have advanced any arguments, regarding ISIS and what has to be done to stop these religious fanatics in their bid to create their global caliphate?

Oh and Gusmac is not even prepared to accept what ISIS trying to achieve. He just keeps waffling on about British and American foreign policy and how we got to this point. #-o

FFS come up with something new... #-o

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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:20 pm 
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Skull wrote:

And once again, no one is disagrees on how the west came to be in this position with ISIS, so whats the point in repeating how we got here? #-o How does this justify the action they are taking raping and killing and what has to be done to stop the threat spreading? :?

This is just a meme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ it has little to do with the topic of this thread.

Honestly CC, you've got me wondering what the fu*k is going on in your head or what it is you can't understand about the subject at hand. :?

You nor Gusmac have advanced any arguments, regarding ISIS and what has to be done to stop these religious fanatics in their bid to create their global caliphate?

Oh and Gusmac is not even prepared to accept what ISIS trying to achieve. He just keeps waffling on about British and American foreign policy and how we got to this point. #-o


I don't want anything to do with the middle east - I don't think we should waste tax payers money bombing them - I aint going to go there on my holidays and in all seriousness, I really don't give a hoot.

I hope that makes my position clear.

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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:26 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Skull wrote:

And once again, no one disagrees on how the west came to be in this position with ISIS, so whats the point in repeating how we got here? #-o How does this justify the action they are taking raping and killing and what has to be done to stop the threat spreading? :?

This is just a meme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ it has little to do with the topic of this thread.

Honestly CC, you've got me wondering what the fu*k is going on in your head or what it is you can't understand about the subject at hand. :?

You nor Gusmac have advanced any arguments, regarding ISIS and what has to be done to stop these religious fanatics in their bid to create their global caliphate?

Oh and Gusmac is not even prepared to accept what ISIS trying to achieve. He just keeps waffling on about British and American foreign policy and how we got to this point. #-o


I don't want anything to do with the middle east - I don't think we should waste tax payers money bombing them - I aint going to go there on my holidays and in all seriousness, I really don't give a hoot.

I hope that makes my position clear.


So why bother entering into the debate in the first place, if your were just going to act like a child? #-o

So you, like Gusmac don't think ISIS should be stopped by any means necessary and their threat to Western society is perfectly acceptable and we should just let them get on with raping and killing their way to a global caliphate? #-o #-o #-o #-o

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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Skull, why is it even important to you what I think should be done about ISIS?
Do you actually think, even for a second, that any of our opinions will have the slightest bearing on what happens next?

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 Post subject: Re: ISIS,ISIL,IS
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:30 pm 
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Skull wrote:
So why bother entering into the debate in the first place, if your were just going to act like a child? #-o


That's rather good coming from you :lol:

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