Taxi Driver Online

UK cab trade debate and advice
It is currently Wed Apr 29, 2026 7:15 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Should he pay the fine?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:05 pm
Posts: 216
Latest from an Environmental officer crusade against taxi drivers.

Driver using a e-cigarette heading back to the rank is spotted by Environmental Officer (EO). Licensing don't deal with this in our area.

Heads into the office gets the operators details. 20 mins later he walks past the driver having a fag and heads to the empty taxi at the back of the rank. Sticks his head into the open window. When the driver digs him up he asks are you (? Names the owner). Nope I'm the driver. EO then dishes out a £50 fixed penalty for smoking?

At the appeal EO claims was in his own vehicle at traffic lights directly behind the taxi. He recognised driver from the mirrors and saw him smoking. He saw a plume of smoke coming from the cigarette the driver was holding in his hand flicking ash out of the window.

The Appeal was rejected by a council solicitor. Driver is adamant that he will not pay as it would be an admission of guilt.

Licensing Officer has now contacted driver telling him by not paying he will be reported to committee and his Licence may be suspended. Further he has another 4 weeks to pay or sheriffs officer will be instructed to collect.

There is no further appeal.

Pay up or not?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:44 pm
Posts: 10591
Location: Scotland
re appeal, stating that ecigs do not and, cannot be brought under any smoking legislation.
The European high court said so in a ruling last year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:54 am
Posts: 10460
Cabhappy wrote:
Latest from an Environmental officer crusade against taxi drivers.

Driver using a e-cigarette heading back to the rank is spotted by Environmental Officer (EO). Licensing don't deal with this in our area.

Heads into the office gets the operators details. 20 mins later he walks past the driver having a fag and heads to the empty taxi at the back of the rank. Sticks his head into the open window. When the driver digs him up he asks are you (? Names the owner). Nope I'm the driver. EO then dishes out a £50 fixed penalty for smoking?

At the appeal EO claims was in his own vehicle at traffic lights directly behind the taxi. He recognised driver from the mirrors and saw him smoking. He saw a plume of smoke coming from the cigarette the driver was holding in his hand flicking ash out of the window.

The Appeal was rejected by a council solicitor. Driver is adamant that he will not pay as it would be an admission of guilt.

Licensing Officer has now contacted driver telling him by not paying he will be reported to committee and his Licence may be suspended. Further he has another 4 weeks to pay or sheriffs officer will be instructed to collect.

There is no further appeal.

Pay up or not?


No. There is a further appeal stage after his licence has been suspended. In which case, unless he can prove the council has 1) erred in law, 2) based their decision on an incorrect material fact, 3) acted contrary to natural justice, 4) exercised their discretion in an unreasonable manner, his licence will remain suspended at least until its renewal.

Oh and even if he proves his innocence to the satisfaction of a Sheriff there is no guarantee he won't just bat it back to the council for reconsideration. :shock:

The simple truth is, the council has only to judge each case on its merits and base its decision on the balance of probabilities and they can take this to the extreme of one persons word against another with no credible evidence being necessary.

In short, unless he has witnesses or CCTV footage or some way to prove the EO has lied, he's fu*ked. The council can do what they like.

Tell him to pay the fine or be prepared to lose his licence on the principle of knowing he was innocent of any crime.

Oh and he could challenge the legislation but he would probably be better served by installing CCTV for his own protection in the future. :-|

_________________
All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
George Orwell, "Animal Farm"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:54 am
Posts: 10460
skippy41 wrote:
re appeal, stating that ecigs do not and, cannot be brought under any smoking legislation.
The European high court said so in a ruling last year.


Quote:
At the appeal EO claims was in his own vehicle at traffic lights directly behind the taxi. He recognised driver from the mirrors and saw him smoking. He saw a plume of smoke coming from the cigarette the driver was holding in his hand flicking ash out of the window.

_________________
All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
George Orwell, "Animal Farm"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 12045
Location: Aberdeen
Skull wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
re appeal, stating that ecigs do not and, cannot be brought under any smoking legislation.
The European high court said so in a ruling last year.


Quote:
At the appeal EO claims was in his own vehicle at traffic lights directly behind the taxi. He recognised driver from the mirrors and saw him smoking. He saw a plume of smoke coming from the cigarette the driver was holding in his hand flicking ash out of the window.


The uncorroborated word of a council arse-piece. No evidence either.
Anywhere, other than the council's kangaroo court, this would be laughed out the door.

Skull's right, pay up and mark it down to experience. The alternatives are not good :(

_________________
Image
http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:54 am
Posts: 10460
gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
re appeal, stating that ecigs do not and, cannot be brought under any smoking legislation.
The European high court said so in a ruling last year.


Quote:
At the appeal EO claims was in his own vehicle at traffic lights directly behind the taxi. He recognised driver from the mirrors and saw him smoking. He saw a plume of smoke coming from the cigarette the driver was holding in his hand flicking ash out of the window.


The uncorroborated word of a council arse-piece. No evidence either.
Anywhere, other than the council's kangaroo court, this would be laughed out the door.

Skull's right, pay up and mark it down to experience. The alternatives are not good :(


Actually the same lack of corroboration works both ways, should something untoward happen to this EO and in a criminal court of law the burden of proof is higher and beyond a reasonable doubt. So the law can work to your advantage, when taking it into your own hands, should you want to mete out your own justice? :badgrin:

Where there's a will... O:)

_________________
All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
George Orwell, "Animal Farm"


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 213 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group