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 Post subject: Left says get out of EU
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:22 pm 
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I see Owen Jones a well respected Left wing journo is now advocating the UK exit from the EU. its a cracking article and i hope the link works ...........................take a butchers Nidge this looks to be right up your street =D> =D>

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... euroseptic

Its called lexit and 'im convinced after the EU's raping of Greece on behalf of French and German banks

OUT OF THE EU NOW =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

that link gets into the Guardian cant figure why it dont go straight to the article, anyway i hope some one with better skills will be able to put up a link that fekking works the article is dynamite!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:46 pm 
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Is this the one..........

Quote:

At first, only a few dipped their toes in the water; then others, hesitantly, followed their lead, all the time looking at each other for reassurance. As austerity-ravaged Greece was placed under what Yanis Varoufakis terms a “postmodern occupation”, its sovereignty overturned and compelled to implement more of the policies that have achieved nothing but economic ruin, Britain’s left is turning against the European Union, and fast.

“Everything good about the EU is in retreat; everything bad is on the rampage,” writes George Monbiot, explaining his about-turn. “All my life I’ve been pro-Europe,” says Caitlin Moran, “but seeing how Germany is treating Greece, I am finding it increasingly distasteful.” Nick Cohen believes the EU is being portrayed “with some truth, as a cruel, fanatical and stupid institution”. “How can the left support what is being done?” asks Suzanne Moore. “The European ‘Union’. Not in my name.” There are senior Labour figures in Westminster and Holyrood privately moving to an “out” position too.
Should the left leave the EU? | Owen Jones talks...

The list goes on, and it is growing. The more leftwing opponents of the EU come out, the more momentum will gather pace and gain critical mass. For those of us on the left who have always been critical of the EU, it has felt like a lonely crusade. But left support for withdrawal – “Lexit”, if you like – is not new. If anything, this new wave of left Euroscepticism represents a reawakening. Much of the left campaigned against entering the European Economic Community when Margaret Thatcher and the like campaigned for membership.

It was German and French banks who benefited from the bailouts, not the Greek economy

It would threaten the ability of leftwing governments to implement policies, people like my parents thought, and would forbid the sort of industrial activism needed to protect domestic industries. But then Thatcherism happened, and an increasingly battered and demoralised left began to believe that the only hope of progressive legislation was via Brussels. The misery of the left was, in the 1980s, matched by the triumphalism of the free marketeers, who had transformed Britain beyond many of their wildest ambitions, and began to balk at the restraints put on their dreams by the European project.

The left’s pessimism about the possibility of implementing social reform at home without the help of the EU fused with a progressive vision of internationalism and unity, one that had emerged from the rubble of fascism and genocidal war. It is perhaps this feelgood halo that has been extinguished by a country the EU has driven into an economic collapse unseen since America’s great depression. It was German and French banks who recklessly lent to Greece that have benefited from bailouts, not the Greek economy. The destruction of Greece’s national sovereignty was achieved by economic strangulation, and treatment dealt out to Alexis Tsipras likened to “extensive mental waterboarding”. Slovakia’s deputy prime minister, Peter Kažimír, may have deleted his tweet calling this modern-day Versailles “the results of their ‘Greek Spring’”, but he is right: this was all about crushing a rebellion.

Ugly indeed. As the former European commission adviser Philippe Legrain puts it, “Germany is proving to be a calamitous hegemon,” overruling even France’s objections.

The euro suits Germany, of course, as a weak euro is good for its exports and prevents poorer EU countries getting a competitive edge. But look at how the EU has operated. It has driven elected governments – however unsavoury, like Silvio Berlusconi’s – from office. Ireland and Portugal were also blackmailed. The 2011 treaty effectively banned Keynesian economics in the eurozone.

Hostility to the EU is seen as the preserve of the hard right, and not the sort of thing progressives should entertain

But even outside the eurozone, our democracy is threatened. The Transatlantic Trade Investment Partnership (TTIP), typically negotiated by the EU in secret with corporate interests, threatens a race to the-bottom in environmental and other standards. Even more ominously, it would give large corporations the ability to sue elected governments to try to stop them introducing policies that supposedly hit their profit margins, whatever their democratic mandate. It would clear the way to not only expand the privatisation of our NHS, but make it irreversible too. Royal Mail may have been privatised by the Tories, but it was the EU that began the process by enforcing the liberalisation of the natural monopoly of postal services. Want to nationalise the railways? That means you have to not only overcome European commission rail directive 91/440/EEC, but potentially the proposed Fourth Railway Package too.

Other treaties and directives enforce free market policies based on privatisation and marketisation of our public services and utilities. David Cameron is now proposing a renegotiation that will strip away many of the remaining “good bits” of the EU, particularly opting out of employment protection rules. Yet he depends on the left to campaign for and support his new package, which will be to stay in an increasingly pro-corporate EU shorn of pro-worker trappings. Can we honestly endorse that?
Greece is the latest battleground in the financial elite’s war on democracy
George Monbiot
George Monbiot
Read more

Let’s just be honest about our fears. We fear that we will inadvertently line up with the xenophobes and the immigrant-bashing nationalists, and a “no” result will be seen as their vindication, unleashing a carnival of Ukippery. Hostility to the EU is seen as the preserve of the hard right, and not the sort of thing progressives should entertain. And that is why – if indeed much of the left decides on Lexit – it must run its own separate campaign and try and win ownership of the issue.

Such a campaign would focus on building a new Britain, one of workers’ rights, a genuine living wage, public ownership, industrial activism and tax justice. Such a populist campaign could help the left reconnect with working-class communities it lost touch with long ago. My fear otherwise is a repetition of the Scottish referendum: but this time, instead of the progressive SNP as the beneficiaries, with Ukip mopping up in working-class communities as big businesses issue chilling threats about the risks of voting the wrong way. Without a prominent Left Out campaign, Ukip could displace Labour right across northern England. That would be the real vindication of Ukippery.

Lexit may be seen as a betrayal of solidarity with the left in the EU: Syriza and Podemos in Spain are trying to change the institution, after all, not leave it. Syriza’s experience illustrates just how forlorn that cause is. But in any case, the threat of Brexit would help them. Germany has little incentive to change tack: it benefits enormously from the current arrangements. If its behaviour is seen to be causing the break-up of the EU, it will strengthen the hand of those opposing the status quo. The case for Lexit grows ever stronger, and – at the very least – more of us need to start dipping our toes in the water.




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:15 pm 
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[edited by admin] Europe, lets get out

I see the UK looks set to pay for £100Billion as part of Greece's payday loan....

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:06 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
[edited by admin] Europe, lets get out

I see the UK looks set to pay for £100Billion as part of Greece's payday loan....


It'll be an honour and a privilige to help out our EU Greek friends, it feel's good to give, especially when you don't actually want to. :sad:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:55 pm 
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Owen predicted a labour landslide didn't he? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:35 pm 
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Cabby John 1 wrote:
Is this the one..........

Quote:

At first, only a few dipped their toes in the water; then others, hesitantly, followed their lead, all the time looking at each other for reassurance. As austerity-ravaged Greece was placed under what Yanis Varoufakis terms a “postmodern occupation”, its sovereignty overturned and compelled to implement more of the policies that have achieved nothing but economic ruin, Britain’s left is turning against the European Union, and fast.

“Everything good about the EU is in retreat; everything bad is on the rampage,” writes George Monbiot, explaining his about-turn. “All my life I’ve been pro-Europe,” says Caitlin Moran, “but seeing how Germany is treating Greece, I am finding it increasingly distasteful.” Nick Cohen believes the EU is being portrayed “with some truth, as a cruel, fanatical and stupid institution”. “How can the left support what is being done?” asks Suzanne Moore. “The European ‘Union’. Not in my name.” There are senior Labour figures in Westminster and Holyrood privately moving to an “out” position too.
Should the left leave the EU? | Owen Jones talks...

The list goes on, and it is growing. The more leftwing opponents of the EU come out, the more momentum will gather pace and gain critical mass. For those of us on the left who have always been critical of the EU, it has felt like a lonely crusade. But left support for withdrawal – “Lexit”, if you like – is not new. If anything, this new wave of left Euroscepticism represents a reawakening. Much of the left campaigned against entering the European Economic Community when Margaret Thatcher and the like campaigned for membership.

It was German and French banks who benefited from the bailouts, not the Greek economy

It would threaten the ability of leftwing governments to implement policies, people like my parents thought, and would forbid the sort of industrial activism needed to protect domestic industries. But then Thatcherism happened, and an increasingly battered and demoralised left began to believe that the only hope of progressive legislation was via Brussels. The misery of the left was, in the 1980s, matched by the triumphalism of the free marketeers, who had transformed Britain beyond many of their wildest ambitions, and began to balk at the restraints put on their dreams by the European project.

The left’s pessimism about the possibility of implementing social reform at home without the help of the EU fused with a progressive vision of internationalism and unity, one that had emerged from the rubble of fascism and genocidal war. It is perhaps this feelgood halo that has been extinguished by a country the EU has driven into an economic collapse unseen since America’s great depression. It was German and French banks who recklessly lent to Greece that have benefited from bailouts, not the Greek economy. The destruction of Greece’s national sovereignty was achieved by economic strangulation, and treatment dealt out to Alexis Tsipras likened to “extensive mental waterboarding”. Slovakia’s deputy prime minister, Peter Kažimír, may have deleted his tweet calling this modern-day Versailles “the results of their ‘Greek Spring’”, but he is right: this was all about crushing a rebellion.

Ugly indeed. As the former European commission adviser Philippe Legrain puts it, “Germany is proving to be a calamitous hegemon,” overruling even France’s objections.

The euro suits Germany, of course, as a weak euro is good for its exports and prevents poorer EU countries getting a competitive edge. But look at how the EU has operated. It has driven elected governments – however unsavoury, like Silvio Berlusconi’s – from office. Ireland and Portugal were also blackmailed. The 2011 treaty effectively banned Keynesian economics in the eurozone.

Hostility to the EU is seen as the preserve of the hard right, and not the sort of thing progressives should entertain

But even outside the eurozone, our democracy is threatened. The Transatlantic Trade Investment Partnership (TTIP), typically negotiated by the EU in secret with corporate interests, threatens a race to the-bottom in environmental and other standards. Even more ominously, it would give large corporations the ability to sue elected governments to try to stop them introducing policies that supposedly hit their profit margins, whatever their democratic mandate. It would clear the way to not only expand the privatisation of our NHS, but make it irreversible too. Royal Mail may have been privatised by the Tories, but it was the EU that began the process by enforcing the liberalisation of the natural monopoly of postal services. Want to nationalise the railways? That means you have to not only overcome European commission rail directive 91/440/EEC, but potentially the proposed Fourth Railway Package too.

Other treaties and directives enforce free market policies based on privatisation and marketisation of our public services and utilities. David Cameron is now proposing a renegotiation that will strip away many of the remaining “good bits” of the EU, particularly opting out of employment protection rules. Yet he depends on the left to campaign for and support his new package, which will be to stay in an increasingly pro-corporate EU shorn of pro-worker trappings. Can we honestly endorse that?
Greece is the latest battleground in the financial elite’s war on democracy
George Monbiot
George Monbiot
Read more

Let’s just be honest about our fears. We fear that we will inadvertently line up with the xenophobes and the immigrant-bashing nationalists, and a “no” result will be seen as their vindication, unleashing a carnival of Ukippery. Hostility to the EU is seen as the preserve of the hard right, and not the sort of thing progressives should entertain. And that is why – if indeed much of the left decides on Lexit – it must run its own separate campaign and try and win ownership of the issue.

Such a campaign would focus on building a new Britain, one of workers’ rights, a genuine living wage, public ownership, industrial activism and tax justice. Such a populist campaign could help the left reconnect with working-class communities it lost touch with long ago. My fear otherwise is a repetition of the Scottish referendum: but this time, instead of the progressive SNP as the beneficiaries, with Ukip mopping up in working-class communities as big businesses issue chilling threats about the risks of voting the wrong way. Without a prominent Left Out campaign, Ukip could displace Labour right across northern England. That would be the real vindication of Ukippery.

Lexit may be seen as a betrayal of solidarity with the left in the EU: Syriza and Podemos in Spain are trying to change the institution, after all, not leave it. Syriza’s experience illustrates just how forlorn that cause is. But in any case, the threat of Brexit would help them. Germany has little incentive to change tack: it benefits enormously from the current arrangements. If its behaviour is seen to be causing the break-up of the EU, it will strengthen the hand of those opposing the status quo. The case for Lexit grows ever stronger, and – at the very least – more of us need to start dipping our toes in the water.





Thats it John my thanks for posting it ................TT :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:37 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Owen predicted a labour landslide didn't he? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Well if he did he got it wrong :D

but as usual you go off at a tangent CC whats your view in this article ?

In or Out of the EU ?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:48 pm 
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trotskys twin wrote:
captain cab wrote:
Owen predicted a labour landslide didn't he? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Well if he did he got it wrong :D

but as usual you go off at a tangent CC whats your view in this article ?

In or Out of the EU ?



I think the EU isn't the free trade association my folks thought they were joining.

but my reasoning is very different to Owens.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:01 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
trotskys twin wrote:
captain cab wrote:
Owen predicted a labour landslide didn't he? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Well if he did he got it wrong :D

but as usual you go off at a tangent CC whats your view in this article ?

In or Out of the EU ?



I think the EU isn't the free trade association my folks thought they were joining.

but my reasoning is very different to Owens.


LOOK SHEEP SHAGGER IT AINT........................ HARD............IN .............OR OUT? #-o #-o #-o OF THE EU ?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:09 pm 
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trotskys twin wrote:

LOOK SHEEP SHAGGER IT AINT........................ HARD............IN .............OR OUT? #-o #-o #-o OF THE EU ?


as ive always said, if we run it, in, if not, out.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:14 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
[edited by admin] Europe, lets get out

I see the UK looks set to pay for £100Billion as part of Greece's payday loan....



£100billion we won't get back.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:00 pm 
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Nidge2 wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
[edited by admin] Europe, lets get out

I see the UK looks set to pay for £100Billion as part of Greece's payday loan....



£100billion we won't get back.



And remember the Greeks aint getting it its going straight into Kraut Banks #-o #-o Time to get out of the EU =D> =D> =D>

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:36 am 
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trotskys twin wrote:
Nidge2 wrote:
wannabeeahack wrote:
[edited by admin] Europe, lets get out

I see the UK looks set to pay for £100Billion as part of Greece's payday loan....



£100billion we won't get back.



And remember the Greeks aint getting it its going straight into Kraut Banks #-o #-o Time to get out of the EU =D> =D> =D>


Don't they drip feed it down to the Greeks? Someone said to me that they get it all in one wad, I pissed myself laughing at them.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:15 pm 
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£100billion we won't get back.[/quote]


And remember the Greeks aint getting it its going straight into Kraut Banks #-o #-o Time to get out of the EU =D> =D> =D>[/quote]

Don't they drip feed it down to the Greeks? Someone said to me that they get it all in one wad, I pissed myself laughing at them.[/quote]

The way i read it is the Krauts get the loot into their banks and then give the bubbles another loan all with compound interest and every fiddle you can imagine ........................think its covered in the article by Owen Jones at the beginning of this thread !

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