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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:10 am 
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Cabby John 1 wrote:
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A mother or Father may strap a small child around both of them if child is sitting on their lap


I cannot remember when or where (perhaps on here);

I was told NOT to allow a parent/adult to put the strap around themselves and a child. The passenger was only allowed to strap themselves and to then hold the child outside of the strap/restraint. The reasoning was that in the event of an accident/severe braking, the inertia would snap shut firmly holding the passenger back, the passenger at the same time would also be forcibly coming forward, between the two forces it could crush a small child sat on their lap.

You are absolutely correct John. never put one belt around an adult and a child.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:15 pm 
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Cabby John 1 wrote:
Quote:
A mother or Father may strap a small child around both of them if child is sitting on their lap


I cannot remember when or where (perhaps on here);

I was told NOT to allow a parent/adult to put the strap around themselves and a child. The passenger was only allowed to strap themselves and to then hold the child outside of the strap/restraint. The reasoning was that in the event of an accident/severe braking, the inertia would snap shut firmly holding the passenger back, the passenger at the same time would also be forcibly coming forward, between the two forces it could crush a small child sat on their lap.


V helpful - I can see this is exactly correct, from the physics :-

Scenario 1 :- child on own in seat belt. Child experiences one force F from the front ie the belt, and F = (Mass of child) x deceleration of vehicle at collision.

Scenario 2 : parent with child on lap in one seat belt together. Same deceleration occurs as before, and applies to adult AND child. NET force backwards on child is still F, as before - however that force is now composed of TWO forces ie a force F2 backwards from seat belt equal to F2 = (Mass of child + Mass of adult) x deceleration, and a force F1 coming forwards from the adult behind, equal to F1 = (Mass of adult) x deceleration.

ie F = F2 - F1

As you say these two oppositely acting forces F1 and F2 produce 'crushing' of the unfortunate child, even though they are undergoing only the same deceleration as in Scenario 1. These forces are both considerably greater than the force F in Scenario 1, as the adult is a lot heavier - so for example if adult weighs 5 times that of the child, the force from the seat belt is 6 TIMES greater than F, and at same time a 5 TIMES greater force than F is coming from behind from the adult. Nasty stuff.

(I would add that the force experienced by the adult would be the same in both cases - the only difference would be it comes from the seat belt in Scenario 1, and from the child in Scenario 2 - this force being equal to (Mass of adult) x deceleration, and there is zero force on adult from behind at the instant of collision).

(I would also say I made the above calculation assuming the deceleration of the passengers at the instant of the collision was the same in both the scenarios - which I thought would be a reasonable approximation)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:00 pm 
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Nice to see at least one driver understands the Higgs-Bosun.

As to the theory of relativity, the more I think of it, the harder it gets! (E=M(CC))

Now if you could explain those two things Handyman?

:D

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:56 pm 
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Chris the Fish wrote:

As to the theory of relativity,

:D

Do you want the explanation of the special theory of relativity or the theory of general relativity? :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:25 pm 
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handyman wrote:
So given that, I was wondering can an adult sit a child under 3 on their knee, or must the child sit back in the adult seat. Please note this question has nothing to do with max no of passengers - it could be one mum and her 2 year old coming out of Asda. The HC says such child under 3 does not need to wear any seatbelt at all.

What the law says it what a person must do in a car, unless they are a taxi/PH.

As the law doesn't apply to taxi/PH then there are no rules other than common sense ones.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:21 pm 
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Ouch, got that one wrong.

Clarity.

http://www.busk-uk.co.uk/index.php?page=seatbelt

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... 80mph.html

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:40 pm 
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And the reason we don't have to cary child seats is, what size seat do you carry? There's no room to carry one of each size in the car, hence we got the exemption! NEVER have an unrestrained child in the front seat.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:43 pm 
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Chris the Fish wrote:
Nice to see at least one driver understands the Higgs-Bosun.

As to the theory of relativity, the more I think of it, the harder it gets! (E=M(CC))

Now if you could explain those two things Handyman?

:D


I am not really at that level yet, but I do understand some basic 'Newtonian' mechanics - I used a simple force diagram for the above - very handy for understanding these kind of situations. You apply Newton Law III and Newton Law II to the two 'masses' with a contact force between them.

Relativity and Particle Physics one day!

Private Reggie wrote:


But at least you alerted us to this issue - to be honest I had never thought about it before and had not been aware of it, until now. It is actually a genuine safety issue - and I don't think it is obvious to everyone that this is a danger.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:30 pm 
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then we get onto parents with kids in pushchairs requesting a bus/WAV to save folding the pushchair.....

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:10 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
then we get onto parents with kids in pushchairs requesting a bus/WAV to save folding the pushchair.....

Take your pick on opinion concerning that one :wink:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=buggi ... ent=safari

An E7 though can secure a pushchair in the same way as a wheelchair, is it legal? Pushchair brake on with both clamps locked added to child strapped in pushchair and seatbelt strapped across pushchair as done with a wheelchair, child facing backwards again same as WH/C user, I'd say that's a safe way to carry a child in a pushchair in a taxi but is it legal, probably not :roll:

What is legal is a child seat, every parent should have one :wink:

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