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MR T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:29 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Midlife martyr wrote:
For some reason Grandad despite the very clear findings of the inquest you seem determined to try to deflect blame away from the police and onto the fans, as to what else they should have done before opening the outer gates they should have closed the entrances to the two central pens which were already completely full which would have diverted the fans into the two pens on either side which were relatively empty.

Where do I blame the fans? There was a serious risk of people being injured or worse outside the ground. How long would it have taken to get the the two central pens closed off? No doubt longer that was available for the fans outside the ground. It must have been a split second decision that went terribly wrong. Now don't get me wrong here, What happened after the event by the police and lawyers since does need addressing through the proper channels.


Grandad, first I thought you were determined to blame the fans, but the more I read your responses the more I am inclined to believe you are still trapped in the lies that were told. This is the way it has been told to me: imagine a road with a large wall running down the side of it. A locked emergency gateway which is used for people to come out of. Continue past this gateway and you arrive at the turnstiles. Only a few were open. The crowd backs up down the road past the locked gate and continues down the road. The game is starting and the fans are outside waiting to get in. At this point they were still safe even with the hustle and bustle. Duckenfield made the decision to open the gate to let them in to clear the backlog from the turnstiles. There is clear evidence given by the police sergeant who was in the yard at the time that he was given no instructions to close the gates on the tunnel. He said this in his statement and his statement was altered.

The truth is now out and I should imagine will be available for people to read, although 2 years worth of statements might take some reading!

Now as for justice, it has become quite clear that the families intend to go on until justice has been seen to be done.

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!
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grandad
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:34 pm 
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Midlife martyr wrote:
As to closing the entrances to the central pens it wasn't exactly rocket science that most fans would try to get into the central pens for the best view and once at capacity these pens should have been closed off as had been done in previous highly attended games.

Was the closing of these gates the job of the police or match day stewards?
No one has yet answered the question regarding the choices available to stop injuries or worse outside the ground when the crush started there? Other than opening the gate, what could have been done?

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grandad
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:40 pm 
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MR T wrote:

Grandad, first I thought you were determined to blame the fans, but the more I read your responses the more I am inclined to believe you are still trapped in the lies that were told. This is the way it has been told to me: imagine a road with a large wall running down the side of it. A locked emergency gateway which is used for people to come out of. Continue past this gateway and you arrive at the turnstiles. Only a few were open. The crowd backs up down the road past the locked gate and continues down the road. The game is starting and the fans are outside waiting to get in. At this point they were still safe even with the hustle and bustle. Duckenfield made the decision to open the gate to let them in to clear the backlog from the turnstiles. There is clear evidence given by the police sergeant who was in the yard at the time that he was given no instructions to close the gates on the tunnel. He said this in his statement and his statement was altered.

The truth is now out and I should imagine will be available for people to read, although 2 years worth of statements might take some reading!

Now as for justice, it has become quite clear that the families intend to go on until justice has been seen to be done.

Are you saying that there was no problem outside the ground and that everyone was queuing nicely even though the game was starting?

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MR T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:42 pm 
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grandad wrote:
MR T wrote:

Grandad, first I thought you were determined to blame the fans, but the more I read your responses the more I am inclined to believe you are still trapped in the lies that were told. This is the way it has been told to me: imagine a road with a large wall running down the side of it. A locked emergency gateway which is used for people to come out of. Continue past this gateway and you arrive at the turnstiles. Only a few were open. The crowd backs up down the road past the locked gate and continues down the road. The game is starting and the fans are outside waiting to get in. At this point they were still safe even with the hustle and bustle. Duckenfield made the decision to open the gate to let them in to clear the backlog from the turnstiles. There is clear evidence given by the police sergeant who was in the yard at the time that he was given no instructions to close the gates on the tunnel. He said this in his statement and his statement was altered.

The truth is now out and I should imagine will be available for people to read, although 2 years worth of statements might take some reading!

Now as for justice, it has become quite clear that the families intend to go on until justice has been seen to be done.

Are you saying that there was no problem outside the ground and that everyone was queuing nicely even though the game was starting?

I am saying that they were safe..

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MR T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:56 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
hmmmm............... well this discussion shows how differently people view the facts. I believe the gate was fine but the police thought that opening it would solve crowd problems outside the stadium in fact it had the reverse effect something that should have been properly investigated at the time instead of allowing the stupid blame game that followed. Like many i remember the TV pictures I also remember the Heysel pictures and this was very different. Heysel was the fans fault this wasn't and I never understood the amount of time and effort put into blaming them. I hope now everyone can move on and put the past behind them



Not going to happen....Imo

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Nidge2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:21 pm 
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Midlife martyr wrote:
For some reason Grandad despite the very clear findings of the inquest you seem determined to try to deflect blame away from the police and onto the fans, as to what else they should have done before opening the outer gates they should have closed the entrances to the two central pens which were already completely full which would have diverted the fans into the two pens on either side which were relatively empty.


Two friends of mine who I used to play football with were at the game, their accounts of the day pre match were that they were being pestered by ticketless Liverpool fans who had travelled without tickets hoping to buy one on the day to gain entry, the Liverpool fans who they were talking to and who had got tickets were complaining about standing arrangements and why weren't Liverpool given the Kop end at Hillsborough? The Forest fans were also surprised when they got the tickets, they expected to be in the Leppings Lane end.

After the disaster they both travelled to Liverpool to lay their shirts and scarfs on the pitch at Anfield.

The above doesn't detract from the fact that something went dreadfully wrong. Were there enough turn styles open? Was there ticketless fans there? Was Duckenfield solely responsible? Were the FA responsible? Were Sheffield Wednesday responsible? Were South Yorkshire Police responsible?

Sadly we live in a world of the internet where news is available 24/7 365 days a year and due to this the families will never get closure, it will carry on and carry on because someone in the background wants it to carry on because they're making money out of it.
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Nidge2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:24 pm 
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MR T wrote:
edders23 wrote:
I hope now everyone can move on and put the past behind them



Not going to happen....Imo


It never will do because people are after making money.
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MR T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:03 pm 
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Nidge2 wrote:
Midlife martyr wrote:
For some reason Grandad despite the very clear findings of the inquest you seem determined to try to deflect blame away from the police and onto the fans, as to what else they should have done before opening the outer gates they should have closed the entrances to the two central pens which were already completely full which would have diverted the fans into the two pens on either side which were relatively empty.


Two friends of mine who I used to play football with were at the game, their accounts of the day pre match were that they were being pestered by ticketless Liverpool fans who had travelled without tickets hoping to buy one on the day to gain entry, the Liverpool fans who they were talking to and who had got tickets were complaining about standing arrangements and why weren't Liverpool given the Kop end at Hillsborough? The Forest fans were also surprised when they got the tickets, they expected to be in the Leppings Lane end.

After the disaster they both travelled to Liverpool to lay their shirts and scarfs on the pitch at Anfield.

The above doesn't detract from the fact that something went dreadfully wrong. Were there enough turn styles open? Was there ticketless fans there? Was Duckenfield solely responsible? Were the FA responsible? Were Sheffield Wednesday responsible? Were South Yorkshire Police responsible?

Sadly we live in a world of the internet where news is available 24/7 365 days a year and due to this the families will never get closure, it will carry on and carry on because someone in the background wants it to carry on because they're making money out of it.



Fans today no longer go to games hoping to buy tickets........??

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MR T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:04 pm 
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Nidge2 wrote:
MR T wrote:
edders23 wrote:
I hope now everyone can move on and put the past behind them



Not going to happen....Imo


It never will do because people are after making money.

it's much deeper then money......

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grandad
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:44 pm 
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MR T wrote:
Nidge2 wrote:
MR T wrote:

It never will do because people are after making money.

it's much deeper then money......

It was all about the truth wasn't it. Yet Today we hear that compensation is being sought from 2 police forces. :?

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wannabeeahack
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:45 pm 
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MR T wrote:
it's much deeper then money......


so the solicitors and barristers are working FOC?

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MR T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:00 pm 
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Quote:
It was all about the truth wasn't it. Yet Today we hear that compensation is being sought from 2 police forces.

So 27 years with out.....a husdand....wife.....father....Has no value to you..

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!
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MR T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:02 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
MR T wrote:
it's much deeper then money......


so the solicitors and barristers are working FOC?



Does yours..I don't think so..

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wannabeeahack
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:03 pm 
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grandad wrote:
It was all about the truth wasn't it. Yet Today we hear that compensation is being sought from 2 police forces. :?


money grabbing was always the ultimate end game, no different to the Jimmy Saville episode

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MR T
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:04 pm 
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wannabeeahack wrote:
grandad wrote:
It was all about the truth wasn't it. Yet Today we hear that compensation is being sought from 2 police forces. :?


money grabbing was always the ultimate end game, no different to the Jimmy Saville episode


Knob..

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